QLD Colts 2014

[Cat_A]

I think they're hindered by not having the resources to support a staff member who can approach talent on a full-time or even a part-time basis but I think they have to start somewhere. So better numbers initially, good connection between colts and grades and some player retention their profile will rise in the long term. Hopefully this year's boys will stick around for next year too etc etc.

I don't want to speak for Wests people, but I'd be surprised if anyone expects finals. I have no doubt they're doing their best with what they have to work with and I don't doubt they've unearthed some quality players who may have slipped under the GAGR radar until now.

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[SouthernX]

@Breakdown you seem infatuated with schoolboy rugby.. Do you even get time to make it out to clubland or are you simply a GPS schoolboy rugby fanboy?

I ask because as CAT_A pointed out the heart & ticker of a 2nd XV schoolboy can be just as important then all these Big Fish/Small Pond 1st XV players & you can see this in Premier Colts rugby with no name guys rising out of nowhere to have great premier careers. (Higginbotham was a virtual unknown until he found his true love at the Breakers/Kennel)

Club Rugby can't even hold a candle to the politics of schoolboy rugby. There's expectations to stick with some of these kids on the full scholarship in the open side when there's clearly better options performing in the team below.

 

[Breakdown]

@Breakdown you seem infatuated with schoolboy rugby.. Do you even get time to make it out to clubland or are you simply a GPS schoolboy rugby fanboy?

I ask because as CAT_A pointed out the heart & ticker of a 2nd XV schoolboy can be just as important then all these Big Fish/Small Pond 1st XV players & you can see this in Premier Colts rugby with no name guys rising out of nowhere to have great premier careers. (Higginbotham was a virtual unknown until he found his true love at the Breakers/Kennel)

Club Rugby can't even hold a candle to the politics of schoolboy rugby. There's expectations to stick with some of these kids on the full scholarship in the open side when there's clearly better options performing in the team below.

@SouthernX you seem awfully defensive for what is crystal clear to everyone who've watched a Wests Colts game - they simply don't have the cattle. In fact, I'm confident they wouldn't make the finals in Colts 1 if they dropped down a level. This is not to say the boys don't try, but talent & numbers needs time & effort, something that most other clubs seem to get.

As for your patronising words, I watch 3x colts games every weekend, something a Wests supporter can't do!

Read above, Higginbotham is the exception rather then the rule. There aren't 25 cases of him every season at one club that will deliver you results.

Wests Colts program needs some serious help as being torched by 70 points is embarrassing given the clubs rich history. Denying it will only see you achieve bottom 2 AGAIN!

 

[SouthernX]

Whe

@SouthernX you seem awfully defensive for what is crystal clear to everyone who've watched a Wests Colts game - they simply don't have the cattle. In fact, I'm confident they wouldn't make the finals in Colts 1 if they dropped down a level. This is not to say the boys don't try, but talent & numbers needs time & effort, something that most other clubs seem to get.

As for your patronising words, I watch 3x colts games every weekend, something a Wests supporter can't do!

Read above, Higginbotham is the exception rather then the rule. There aren't 25 cases of him every season at one club that will deliver you results.

Wests Colts program needs some serious help as being torched by 70 points is embarrassing given the clubs rich history. Denying it will only see you achieve bottom 2 AGAIN!

I didn't even mention Wests Colts program.. Only mentioned the heart & ticker of 2nd XV players & how 1st XV players isn't the be all/end all.

You want to take a swipe at Wests Colts.. Fine so be it. I didn't defend them or make any predictions. (because I know there's a lot of work to be done)

 

[SouthernX]

& Breakdown it was an honest question about are you more Premier Colts Club rugby man or are you a GPS School rugby fanboy.

I asked a question & am sorry if it seemed patronising.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Not that's it's everything, but was told today there are zero 2013 schoolboy representative players @ Wests & only a couple that actually played 1st XV. "Solid" may be wishful thinking especially when you look at the squads other clubs are building based on the content of this thread.

Numbers is the first step to success. Wests will win games this year I am not gonna make predictions on where they will finish on the ladder but I will say that It will be and improvement on previous years.

All I will say is that the statement about no school boys representatives is very untrue. Also a lot of players can't grow up Brisbane and have the GPS pathway to success. There is a whole plethora of talent out there which doesn't necessarily come from the Brisbane gene pool

 

[Cat_A]

Breakdown - agree with you on the point you are trying to make, but I fear you have missed the point I am trying to make.

Numbers come before quality!

1. No Qld or Aus schoolboy, or players of the quality you are talking about, will go to a club which had insufficient numbers to field a side for an entire season; players wanting to go on with rugby need to know that they can play each week. Clubs in this position have zero bargaining power and zero chance of attracting such talent. Wests this year are no chance of 'competing' with other clubs looking to get the talent of the calibre you seem to be suggesting they need.

2. Insufficient numbers mean that you can't select a side based on form or commitment to the team; no numbers mean you have to play that rockstar who is your best player but doesn't show up to training etc.

SO Wests are optimistic, and I'm sure happy, about attracting numbers to play Colts. Given that they had so many forfeits last year, if they manage to put a team plus reserves out each weekend, by default they have improved on last year.

Yes, success breeds success. But the one thing that is essential for being successful, by any criteria, is having people who can pull on the jersey.

 

[TheBigDog]

Apparently Brett Picone (GPS Prem Grade Assistant coach) is quickly becoming fairly unpopular within the club rugby circles, particularly at colts level. For those unaware, he runs of sports management company (Top Marque Sports I think) who specialise in rugby players in europe, australia, nz etc. He's been using that influence to recruit several notable players to GPS as I've mentioned earlier.

I've heard his recruitment policy includes no financial incentives but rather the promise of professional rugby opportunities and management, which is obviously very handy for aspiring stars. However, even as an avid GPS supporter I hope he's doing the right thing by these young blokes and not preventing them from other opportunities, for example I heard Brothers had offered a few blokes various apprenticeships to help them get the ball rolling out of school and that GPS are yet to provide anything similar but the players are still moving across due to the promise of higher honours through professional management. Obviously the final decisions here lay with the players but I do hope these guys aren't giving up real job opportunities and pathways for what could amount to be nothing.

 

[Cat_A]

Picone is Newstar Sports - could be called something else overseas but that is what he's called in Australia.

Might be a conflict of interest where as a coach he's obliged to pick the best XV and play players where the team needs them to play, but as a manager he wants his players to be playing in the top grade in their preferred position. I'd expect/hope there were measures in place to mitigate this.

There was a weird situation a couple of years ago when he was looking after Jay Havelu and Jarrad Butler - same age, same position - and both were strongly encouraged to go to GPS. History shows that JB went to Easts instead, but it wasn't a cut & dried decision for him.

The other thing is that GPS have a history of giving players who have been with the club for years a chance ahead of new players. It'll be interesting to see if this sits comfortably with the influx of new talent or if there might be a culture shift coming. The Bryce Hegarty finals situation would've been interesting situation if he had been allowed to play - Mick Heenan, when he was coaching GPS, didn't play a Qld player in favour of the kid who had played there all year (sorry details escape me) and from memory it was a decision that every GPS man I came across was proud of.


EDIT: not Colts examples used - sorry

 

[RugbyReg]

ick Heenan, when he was coaching GPS, didn't play a Qld player in favour of the kid who had played there all year (sorry details escape me) and from memory it was a decision that every GPS man I came across was proud of.

He played Tom Sulley over Will Genia. Big call.

 

[TheBigDog]

Thanks for your response Cat. I agree there can be a conflict of interest. I know last year there were a few blokes on Picone's books, namely Mitch Wade and Moi (prop/hooker whos full name escapes me) who pretty much played only as fresh reserves for Prems and not many, if any, games in reggies. Im not against the idea of fresh reserves but i'm fairly sure their status as professionally managed 'premier' players kept them firmly with prems instead of helping out the other teams.

Back to the colts side of things though, if the rumours are true, Picone has managed to bring about 10 'sought after' colts players to the club for 2014, obviously having Shane Arnold with the Aus u20s is a draw card as well but lets just hope the balance and club culture stays intact with all these new faces.

 

[Breakdown]

Thanks for your response Cat. I agree there can be a conflict of interest. I know last year there were a few blokes on Picone's books, namely Mitch Wade and Moi (prop/hooker whos full name escapes me) who pretty much played only as fresh reserves for Prems and not many, if any, games in reggies. Im not against the idea of fresh reserves but i'm fairly sure their status as professionally managed 'premier' players kept them firmly with prems instead of helping out the other teams.

Back to the colts side of things though, if the rumours are true, Picone has managed to bring about 10 'sought after' colts players to the club for 2014, obviously having Shane Arnold with the Aus u20s is a draw card as well but lets just hope the balance and club culture stays intact with all these new faces.

@TheBigDog - are you able to shed any light on who these 'sought after' players are? Obviously Magnay, Tuttle, & Rodwell have been mentioned previously.

 

[TheBigDog]

@TheBigDog - are you able to shed any light on who these 'sought after' players are? Obviously Magnay, Tuttle, & Rodwell have been mentioned previously.

Sorry mate don't know much more than that, I'm not too familiar with schoolboy footy stars and only hear this info second hand, im not currently involved in the day to day coaching/recruitment at GPS

Aside from those you just mentioned though I have heard that Henry Devine a handy centre from MCA is there, the Nudgee fullback Clint, a colts level NZ representative flyhalf and a sought after second rower have been at training.

 

[Galloper]

TheBigDog

Apart from Devine (whom I really rate), I assume that there would be, as usual, a large number of MCA guys coming across the creek to play Jeeps Colts.

Sam Clarke? This guy didn't have the 2013 season many expected, perhaps due to him carrying a shoulder injury, but he's someone that Jeeps would love to have unless he's playing league. College Captain of MCA last year, good scholar, he's an extremely impressive bloke and I could easily see him captaining the club at some stage if he came down (he's no relation, by the way!).

Anyway, even if Picone's methods or intentions are dubious, I can't say that I would be unhappy to see all these proposed recruits at the club. We'll have to see who stays though, going back to my time I can remember Julian Gardner doing the pre-season with us before pissing off to Wests, and I'm sure that there'd be a hundred similar examples since then.

 

[TheBigDog]

Galloper - yes i've heard the usual large influx of MCA blokes are still making up the majority of the numbers which is good news.

I agree, the stronger the team GPS can field the happier I am, last years colts especially were a bit of a let down so hopefully 2014 brings bigger and better things. I guess I just worry that these young blokes who haven't really got their feet settled since coming out of school are being offered this and that by various clubs, its a lot of information to take in and for a lot of them there are going to be more important things in life than what club they played their colts footy at (not trying to take anything anyway from the friends they'll make and experiences they'll have). But I guess thats just the modern game these days, you gotta get to them early.

 

[FilthRugby]

Back in the day all the MCA old boys would go to Brothers. It's a bit unfortunate that tie is somewhat cut now.

 

[Galloper]

FilthRugby

My recollection (and I was just a kid at the time so I could easily be wrong) is that Jeeps' move to Yoku Road in about 1977 was motivated in part by its proximity to MCA.

At the time Ashgrove rugby was very strong, with most playing for Brothers on leaving school, but from 1977 onwards the flow towards GPS became very strong, very quickly . Nowadays the tie is almost unbreakable, with huge numbers of MCA kids playing juniors for Jeeps on Sundays from Years 5-12, and I can't see that trend reversing - the kids love it.

Incidentally, I think Mick Arnold (father of Shane) was one of the first Ashgrove guys to go to GPS, and he was a member of the First XV in 1977.
Steve Smith was in that team as well and also went on to play 1st grade for Jeeps, as did his brother Andrew (Aus Schools rep) in the 80's.

Bottom line is that there is no real affinity nowadays between MCA and Brothers. One reason might be the motto of the first Principal of MCA in the 40's, Brother Cyprian: " We have two great enemies in life - rugby league and the Christian Brothers!"

 

[TheBigDog]

Galloper its also worth nothing that these days the MCA and GPS association also includes MCA making use of the GPS playing fields for training sessions during rugby season and I know on occasion GPS have played games on the Flats in desperate times when fields at Yoku were water logged etc. The two organisations work very well together.

In other Colts news, word on 'the street' as the cool kids say, is that Magnay officially signed a deal with the Reds over the past week, effectively to keep him away from the Broncos. Whether this now means he will step away from Brothers because he doesn't really need their financial security will be decided soon I believe.

 

[oldmate]

Sounds like GPS & Sunnybank have both built strong squads. Any other clubs looking good at this stage?

Who's willing to put up a top 4?

Sunnybank, Uni, GPS and Souths have recruited well. From what I've read, Brothers have lost a few key players. Easts will be strong with Parko and Gricey as their coaches. The Breakers can not be discounted either.

To predict a top four is very hard but the competition will be very competitive this year.

I don't know much about the other clubs and consequently can not input on their behalf.

 

[Waterford]

Sunnybank, Uni, GPS and Souths have recruited well. From what I've read, Brothers have lost a few key players. Easts will be strong with Parko and Gricey as their coaches. The Breakers can not be discounted either.

To predict a top four is very hard but the competition will be very competitive this year.

I don't know much about the other clubs and consequently can not input on their behalf.

Although Brothers have lost a few key players, in some regards they have also gained some. A bit of strength has been sent down to Brothers from Terrace with Fowler, Larosa, Laxon, Mcnamee and Partridge all confirmed playing. If you remember these boys were apart of one of Terrace's more successful sides.