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Queensland Reds 2024

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
get rid of Cordingly and find a GM who will work with Piccone and new start.

Changing Reds management won't suddenly open the floodgates though and have players being thrown at us.

Player agents can get more commission overseas, regardless of who is running the Reds.

There is also the fact that a lot of them are more pragmatic than us diehard fans and are seeing the writing on the wall much clearer, there is no magic windfall of cash coming for 90% of the blokes these agents manage in Australia. With an Australian professional product on the decline, they need their guys to cash in overseas ASAP as spots in squads particularly in Japan are becoming harder to secure.

I'm not pro-Cordingly, but I definitely see the issues of our player retention running far deeper than one man.
 

SouthernX

Jim Lenehan (48)
A
Changing Reds management won't suddenly open the floodgates though and have players being thrown at us.

Player agents can get more commission overseas, regardless of who is running the Reds.

There is also the fact that a lot of them are more pragmatic than us diehard fans and are seeing the writing on the wall much clearer, there is no magic windfall of cash coming for 90% of the blokes these agents manage in Australia. With an Australian professional product on the decline, they need their guys to cash in overseas ASAP as spots in squads particularly in Japan are becoming harder to secure.

I'm not pro-Cordingly, but I definitely see the issues of our player retention running far deeper than one man.

I agree with your post Phil, highlighted the part I’d like to address.

its not about the players becoming available to us, but rather the players we purposely make unavailable to us.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
"On January 18, the question was put to the Queensland Rugby Union that perhaps the person they should be appointing to succeed Brad Thorn as Reds head coach was Dan McKellar, formerly of the Brumbies and, at that point, still an assistant Wallabies coach.

Could the QRU have reasonably decided prior to the Super Rugby season that Thorn was done and they were looking to hire a new coach?

It doesn't seem like a reasonable position for them to take at that point. That you are so bullish on McKellar you're making a decision to try and poach him the moment Eddie Jones is hired.

For comparison, the Force signed Simon Cron for 2023 at the end of March 2022 when they were 2 wins from 6 games. Many saw that as undermining Sampson during the 2022 season (albeit one that was already half done).
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
This might be an unpopular opinion, but watching Tate score that try over the weekend made me realise the Reds don't know how they want to play; they rarely get their wingers involved. Yes, it was a great try, but any other player gives it to their unmarked winger to score that try. Classic Tate trying to do it all by himself - It paid off this time, I know.

I think you're being harsh on Tate here. He did everything right (as did Daugunu who was positioned well). He had the ball in two hands and when he was getting close to needing to pass he was also switching his hips and starting to cut infield.

Muirhead was ultimately committed to Daugunu and the only way the try wouldn't have been scored at that point was if Tate had passed. He kept both options available until he knew where Muirhead was committed to.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Could the QRU have reasonably decided prior to the Super Rugby season that Thorn was done and they were looking to hire a new coach?

It doesn't seem like a reasonable position for them to take at that point. That you are so bullish on McKellar you're making a decision to try and poach him the moment Eddie Jones is hired.

For comparison, the Force signed Simon Cron for 2023 at the end of March 2022 when they were 2 wins from 6 games. Many saw that as undermining Sampson during the 2022 season (albeit one that was already half done).

Unequivocally yes.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
I just hope that whoever is chosen, assuming Thorn goes is universally considered capable of the role, this will at least allow for all fans to support whatever direction is chosen
 

7137

Alex Ross (28)
Could the QRU have reasonably decided prior to the Super Rugby season that Thorn was done and they were looking to hire a new coach?

It doesn't seem like a reasonable position for them to take at that point. That you are so bullish on McKellar you're making a decision to try and poach him the moment Eddie Jones is hired.

For comparison, the Force signed Simon Cron for 2023 at the end of March 2022 when they were 2 wins from 6 games. Many saw that as undermining Sampson during the 2022 season (albeit one that was already half done).
I think the main takeaway from the article is not that the board were so hot for McKellar that they should jump at the mere sniff of him being available. But that the board were so certain the players would lose their shit if they tried, and it factored into their thinking.
One can only imagine how openly they must talk shit about him in the Reds environment.
 

Misunderstood fan

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Changing Reds management won't suddenly open the floodgates though and have players being thrown at us.

Player agents can get more commission overseas, regardless of who is running the Reds.

There is also the fact that a lot of them are more pragmatic than us diehard fans and are seeing the writing on the wall much clearer, there is no magic windfall of cash coming for 90% of the blokes these agents manage in Australia. With an Australian professional product on the decline, they need their guys to cash in overseas ASAP as spots in squads particularly in Japan are becoming harder to secure.

I'm not pro-Cordingly, but I definitely see the issues of our player retention running far deeper than one man.
I have a son way down in the pecking order at the Reds and whilst our family have always considered the Reds home, my son is weighing up his options. Good friends of ours have family members with Picone and couldn’t speak highly enough of Picone’s ethics and commitment to the players. After all, the player is their client and not the club. My son would have signed with Picone but because the Reds won’t deal with him, we are gridlocked. That may change very soon. The place is in disarray and current players have moved over to Picone without the Reds knowing. I’m guessing the same secrecy happened with Tupou and Mafi. The Reds need to clean up their act. Getting rid of the management who won’t deal with Picone will most likely open the flood gates. Nothing to lose here IMO.
 
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Wilson

Michael Lynagh (62)
I think the main takeaway from the article is not that the board were so hot for McKellar that they should jump at the mere sniff of him being available. But that the board were so certain the players would lose their shit if they tried, and it factored into their thinking.
One can only imagine how openly they must talk shit about him in the Reds environment.
Nothing in that article states the response came from the board and it would be an unusual situation for the board to have met to discuss and formulate a response to an exploratory question from a journalist. Much more likely the response came from the individual who was asked (it's not stated who) but the implication is either Cordingley or Hanham.

At this stage it's a leap from Smith to consider it player power and there's no indication the players were actually asked or had expressed a view. I don't doubt there may have been reluctance in the group to work with McKellar - Thorn is well liked on all accounts and a sudden off season changeover rarely sits well with players, but that doesn't me they did or would have blocked a move.

As much as anything else Cordingley has been one of Thorn's biggest supporters and may see his future as being bound to Thorn's. Given that he's just as likely to shoot down any call for a snap change from outside, and it's not unbelievable to think hesitancy in the playing group is one of the reasons he'd give.

To be clear I'm not stating that it was Cordingley that Smith texted with or that if it was that was his reason for the response, just offering an alternative to Smith's conclusion. From my perspective he has made a bit of a leap to assume some major player power issue off the back of one text from an unspecified individual with some sort of vested interest in the decision.
 

7137

Alex Ross (28)
Ok. Let’s not say board but just someone involved in Reds at a decision making level.
I think the response suggests far more than just the usual loyalty to the current coach.
 

SouthernX

Jim Lenehan (48)
I have a son way down in the pecking order at the Reds and whilst our family have always considered the Reds home, my son is waying up his options. Good friends of ours have family members with Picone and couldn’t speak highly enough of Picone’s ethics and commitment to the players. After all, the player is their client and not the club. My son would have signed with Picone but because the Reds won’t deal with him, we are gridlocked. That my change very soon. The place is in disarray and current players have moved over to Picone without the Reds knowing. I’m guessing the same secrecy happened with Tupou and Mafi. The Reds need to clean up their act. Getting rid of the management who won’t deal with Picone will most likely open the flood gates. Nothing to lose here IMO.

that sucks to hear.

I use to be Anti Piccone… but now I’m just neutral and tired of Piccone saga.

I think some of the Brad Thorn “having a problem with certain players” is just the fall out of Piccone/Cordingly saga & making sure the player is leaving not cause of a contract dispute (bad optics not staying loyal) but rather the money/opportunities being offered outside the reds.
 

Misunderstood fan

Jimmy Flynn (14)
that sucks to hear.

I use to be Anti Piccone… but now I’m just neutral and tired of Piccone saga.

I think some of the Brad Thorn “having a problem with certain players” is just the fall out of Piccone/Cordingly saga & making sure the player is leaving not cause of a contract dispute (bad optics not staying loyal) but rather the money/opportunities being offered outside the reds.
The core squad talk and the younger players get to know what’s going on. It’s a real shame that the culture at the Reds doesn’t live up to your kid’s expectations. It probably happens everywhere. As a parent you preach to you kids about loyalty and commitment but on the other hand that’s a two way street. I begrudged players for leaving the Reds in the past because they were impatient or greedy but you get to know there are deeper reasons and sometimes you need to hedge your bets. Ethical conduct needs to be addressed quickly because the quality players are the future.
 

Putmeoncoach

Allen Oxlade (6)
One of the things I’d point the finger at is in the off season, the reds played around 3-4 games at home or in Japan. There was a lot of club guys getting opportunities which is all warm and fuzzy for community, but unfortunately warm a fuzzy doesn’t win games of rugby. It should have been high performance at all times with guys only getting opportunities if they genuinely are a chance of playing rugby next season. But I think this is a larger issue that all the Aus Super Rugby teams seem to have to battle the fine line between community and professional that other sports definitely don’t battle and other rugby teams don’t seem to battle. People in Bris don’t seem to care that Adam Reynolds, Kotoni Staggs and Payne Haas aren’t from QLD. They have kiwi and English internationals in their team and it’s not an issue. So it’s not a QLD thing, it’s a QLD rugby thing. I don’t think we are ever moving forward as a game in this country until we move forward from these rugby style identity politics.
Jones said last week on his pod cast he wants all Australian teams to be filled with Australian talent no players from overseas. Can’t say it’s helped the Force much?
 

Ged

Allen Oxlade (6)
Are there any promising locks, props running around in QPR that might be worth a look in? Tight 5 a huge concern for the reds and will continue to be unless they find some players with firepower to build their pack around. Smith and Nonggorr the only tight 5 forwards who deserve their spot currently imo.
Exactly. Need to find the next Rhys Van Nek / Blake Schoupp...
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Could the QRU have reasonably decided prior to the Super Rugby season that Thorn was done and they were looking to hire a new coach?

It doesn't seem like a reasonable position for them to take at that point. That you are so bullish on McKellar you're making a decision to try and poach him the moment Eddie Jones is hired.

For comparison, the Force signed Simon Cron for 2023 at the end of March 2022 when they were 2 wins from 6 games. Many saw that as undermining Sampson during the 2022 season (albeit one that was already half done).
'Spose this is subjective but RA certainly didn't hesitate to chase Eddie when he became available.

I reckon they've kept Thorn on a year too long. His results were already sliding badly last season and his team had the exact same issues from the beginning of his tenure.

Moving on from him after last season would not have been unreasonable.
 

Snowy

Peter Burge (5)
Jones said last week on his pod cast he wants all Australian teams to be filled with Australian talent no players from overseas. Can’t say it’s helped the Force much?
Still above the Waratahs and with the same number of wins as the Reds and the Rebels - your point is ?
 

Marce

John Thornett (49)
Still above the Waratahs and with the same number of wins as the Reds and the Rebels - your point is ?
Yeah but Tahs has more elegible players, BIG difference. You can't pick Medrano, Jeremy Trush, Manasa Mataele, Toni Pulu, Tiatia...
 
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