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Rebels 2023

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Bob Davidson (42)
Private school boy game is shrinking, state schoolboy comp is growing. Hopefully the state schools keep going from strength to strength and the private schools can arrest the slide. A lot of the issues with the private schools is the athletic directors at some schools have stopped handing out scholarships for rugby

Back in my day it was only ever STK who offered scholarships for rugby, I know XC still dont offer any for even AFL
 

Dctarget

Michael Lynagh (62)
Back in my day it was only ever STK who offered scholarships for rugby, I know XC still dont offer any for even AFL
Melbourne Grammar does on occasion too.

Public schools are the backbone of this recent home grown talent in Rebels, which surely is a good thing.
 
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KevinO

Peter Sullivan (51)
Melbourne Grammar does on occasion too.

Public schools are the backbone of this recent home grown talent in Rebels, which surely is a good thing.
It's one thing I think the Rebels have done well the last few years, is the promotion of rugby in public schools. At the same time they are still missing out on the catholic schools that fall in the middle. There is a lot of good schools in that middle category that produce good athletes that barely even compete in the touch comps for sports.
 

Tex

John Thornett (49)
Melbourne Grammar does on occasion too.

Public schools are the backbone of this recent home grown talent in Rebels, which surely is a good thing.
Not disagreeing with you but I wonder how many of the state school kids doing well in rep teams have been developed through club rugby?

There was always a very small overlap between club and school, at least in 2004 when I was playing. The better school comp players came up through clubs, but often there was a fairly big divide between the two systems.

Hopefully more state schools can get teams up and running, and importantly, that the schools rugby competition doesn't fall prey to conservative APS gatekeeping.
 

Dctarget

Michael Lynagh (62)
Not disagreeing with you but I wonder how many of the state school kids doing well in rep teams have been developed through club rugby?

There was always a very small overlap between club and school, at least in 2004 when I was playing. The better school comp players came up through clubs, but often there was a fairly big divide between the two systems.

Hopefully more state schools can get teams up and running, and importantly, that the schools rugby competition doesn't fall prey to conservative APS gatekeeping.
Yes you're right, clubs do play a big part in it. Though as the schools take their rugby more seriously I think clubs u18 will suffer. Certainly from personal experience me and my mates all played club and school throughout till 1sts when we dropped club rugby to favour school.
 
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Members Section

Bob Davidson (42)
Not disagreeing with you but I wonder how many of the state school kids doing well in rep teams have been developed through club rugby?

There was always a very small overlap between club and school, at least in 2004 when I was playing. The better school comp players came up through clubs, but often there was a fairly big divide between the two systems.

Hopefully more state schools can get teams up and running, and importantly, that the schools rugby competition doesn't fall prey to conservative APS gatekeeping.

You'd think that the state school program is the pathway RV would like going forward in terms of finding players for the academy pathways, however the APS comes with over 100 years of history, tradition & so many of us even on this forum have seemed to come through that system.
 
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Tex

John Thornett (49)
You'd think that the state school program is the pathway RV would like going forward in terms of finding players for the academy pathways, however the APS comes with over 100 years of history, tradition & so many of us even on this forum have seemed to come through that system.
Yeah it's absolutely the bedrock of school rugby in Vic.

Re. my comment about "gatekeeping": I was a MHS student and experienced the gatekeeping through the rowing program. Public schools were able to compete in just about all of the regattas through the calendar year, except the big Head of the River event, which was conspicuously and intentionally inaccessible for state schools.

I hope the VSRU continues to be agnostic re. funding/governance of its members and actively works to support some of the outer suburban high schools to be involved, hopefully to the extent that they can be fielding competitive XVs over multiple seasons.
 

oztimmay

John Hipwell (52)
Staff member
Yeah it's absolutely the bedrock of school rugby in Vic.

Re. my comment about "gatekeeping": I was a MHS student and experienced the gatekeeping through the rowing program. Public schools were able to compete in just about all of the regattas through the calendar year, except the big Head of the River event, which was conspicuously and intentionally inaccessible for state schools.

I hope the VSRU continues to be agnostic re. funding/governance of its members and actively works to support some of the outer suburban high schools to be involved, hopefully to the extent that they can be fielding competitive XVs over multiple seasons.

A lot of that agnostic drive is down to Kevin Culliver, H/O Rugby from St Kevins. He's been involved as far back as I played schools. not only involved in Vic Rugby, but Australia schools rugby. Amazing the hours he puts in.

I know a few schools offer scholarships. I believe four players in the Brighton 1st XV that played in the final are on some form of scholarship. I don't believe there are any from St Kevins - I think that ended when Steven Russell "exited" the building.

The VSRU (basically private and SE schools) has seen a small contraction, with some junior year levels combine. Thankfully, St Kevins managed to field a team at each year level - possibly Brighton and Melbourne Grammar. 1st XV standard was a little one-sided, with St Kevins leading the way. I hear St Pats will probably be back next year, so growth is good :) I hope MHS can elevate from the 2nd XV comp.

RugbyVic has clearly identified growth in the public school system, with the Rebel shield comp. From what I'm told, the standard is quite stong, and I'd love to see those teams play in the VSRU, or at least against some of their teams. The BIGGEST failing, and it's a real bugbear, is the competition timing. It's run on a wed arvo, and doesn't conclude until 6:30 pm, right when most junior clubs run their training sessions. My team lose 8 players to two different teams, which is a massive pain in the arse. surely RugbyVic could have got their shit together and run the comp at a time which doesn't massively impact club Rugby. Perhaps even run it in march/april?

Still enjoy the school footy standard, and still shooting the matches I attend.
 

Members Section

Bob Davidson (42)
A lot of that agnostic drive is down to Kevin Culliver, H/O Rugby from St Kevins. He's been involved as far back as I played schools. not only involved in Vic Rugby, but Australia schools rugby. Amazing the hours he puts in.

I know a few schools offer scholarships. I believe four players in the Brighton 1st XV that played in the final are on some form of scholarship. I don't believe there are any from St Kevins - I think that ended when Steven Russell "exited" the building.

The VSRU (basically private and SE schools) has seen a small contraction, with some junior year levels combine. Thankfully, St Kevins managed to field a team at each year level - possibly Brighton and Melbourne Grammar. 1st XV standard was a little one-sided, with St Kevins leading the way. I hear St Pats will probably be back next year, so growth is good :) I hope MHS can elevate from the 2nd XV comp.

RugbyVic has clearly identified growth in the public school system, with the Rebel shield comp. From what I'm told, the standard is quite stong, and I'd love to see those teams play in the VSRU, or at least against some of their teams. The BIGGEST failing, and it's a real bugbear, is the competition timing. It's run on a wed arvo, and doesn't conclude until 6:30 pm, right when most junior clubs run their training sessions. My team lose 8 players to two different teams, which is a massive pain in the arse. surely RugbyVic could have got their shit together and run the comp at a time which doesn't massively impact club Rugby. Perhaps even run it in march/april?

Still enjoy the school footy standard, and still shooting the matches I attend.

I am at total opposite sides of this, school comes first. Look at the TAC cup in the afl the premier underage comp of any sport around the country rep team are gutted of half their squad with school football the 1st priority. Leagues should understand this & work with clubs around either bye's or catch up games to accommodate. No junior league is more important than school.
 

Rebel man

Desmond Connor (43)
I am at total opposite sides of this, school comes first. Look at the TAC cup in the afl the premier underage comp of any sport around the country rep team are gutted of half their squad with school football the 1st priority. Leagues should understand this & work with clubs around either bye's or catch up games to accommodate. No junior league is more important than school.
Unless you are picked for your state you play for your school in footy. It sucks as AFL recruiting becomes heavily biased towards private schools
 

stoff

Vay Wilson (31)
A lot of that agnostic drive is down to Kevin Culliver, H/O Rugby from St Kevins. He's been involved as far back as I played schools. not only involved in Vic Rugby, but Australia schools rugby. Amazing the hours he puts in.

I know a few schools offer scholarships. I believe four players in the Brighton 1st XV that played in the final are on some form of scholarship. I don't believe there are any from St Kevins - I think that ended when Steven Russell "exited" the building.

The VSRU (basically private and SE schools) has seen a small contraction, with some junior year levels combine. Thankfully, St Kevins managed to field a team at each year level - possibly Brighton and Melbourne Grammar. 1st XV standard was a little one-sided, with St Kevins leading the way. I hear St Pats will probably be back next year, so growth is good :) I hope MHS can elevate from the 2nd XV comp.

RugbyVic has clearly identified growth in the public school system, with the Rebel shield comp. From what I'm told, the standard is quite stong, and I'd love to see those teams play in the VSRU, or at least against some of their teams. The BIGGEST failing, and it's a real bugbear, is the competition timing. It's run on a wed arvo, and doesn't conclude until 6:30 pm, right when most junior clubs run their training sessions. My team lose 8 players to two different teams, which is a massive pain in the arse. surely RugbyVic could have got their shit together and run the comp at a time which doesn't massively impact club Rugby. Perhaps even run it in march/april?

Still enjoy the school footy standard, and still shooting the matches I attend.
Wednesday isn't a standard for junior Rugby. Plenty of clubs train Thursday. It is a standard for state school sport though.
 

oztimmay

John Hipwell (52)
Staff member
Wednesday isn't a standard for junior Rugby. Plenty of clubs train Thursday. It is a standard for state school sport though.

And this goes to part of my problem with timing. State ( and private schools too, such as aPS and AGSV) play inter-school sports on a Wednesday, but typically during school hours. The latest is a dismissal around 4 - 5.

Due to logistical challenges, RV elected to play at Powerhouse Juniors on a Wednesday arvo. Considering you have schools from Melton, Sunbury, and deep in SE suburbs, it's not a bad spot. But WHY is it run so late - most players return to school after 6:30 pm, and would struggle to make the club training sessions.

It would make a world of difference if the Rugby Shield ran just a few hours earlier, giving adequate time for players to return to their schools, and participate in the training programs if they run on a Wednesday.

Granted that some juniors may train on a Thursday, the clubs I played with (Croydon, Box Hill, Quins) ran junior sessions on a Wednesday, primarily because the number of senior teams didn't provide adequate space to safely train all on the same night. It's what I've know, but not nessecarily saying its the only way. We'd also find with our club that many boys wouldn't be available on Thursday due to school and Rugby League committments. There's always going to be some form of logistical challenge.

Ideally, if the strength/depth of te Rebel Shield teams builds, I'd love to see them integrate with the APS competition, playing comp on Saturday. Then we run into the school / club tug-of-war between players.

So much to work on...
 

Wallaby Man

Darby Loudon (17)
And this goes to part of my problem with timing. State ( and private schools too, such as aPS and AGSV) play inter-school sports on a Wednesday, but typically during school hours. The latest is a dismissal around 4 - 5.

Due to logistical challenges, RV elected to play at Powerhouse Juniors on a Wednesday arvo. Considering you have schools from Melton, Sunbury, and deep in SE suburbs, it's not a bad spot. But WHY is it run so late - most players return to school after 6:30 pm, and would struggle to make the club training sessions.

It would make a world of difference if the Rugby Shield ran just a few hours earlier, giving adequate time for players to return to their schools, and participate in the training programs if they run on a Wednesday.

Granted that some juniors may train on a Thursday, the clubs I played with (Croydon, Box Hill, Quins) ran junior sessions on a Wednesday, primarily because the number of senior teams didn't provide adequate space to safely train all on the same night. It's what I've know, but not nessecarily saying its the only way. We'd also find with our club that many boys wouldn't be available on Thursday due to school and Rugby League committments. There's always going to be some form of logistical challenge.

Ideally, if the strength/depth of te Rebel Shield teams builds, I'd love to see them integrate with the APS competition, playing comp on Saturday. Then we run into the school / club tug-of-war between players.

So much to work on...
Good luck getting approval for taking children out of school for a few hours to play a competition. I suspect that isn’t a fight rugby Victoria would take on. The clubs are way down the list of priority for what the school decision makers would consider.

Private schools are different because it’s allocated time, sanctioned by the school with everything else built around the sporting schedule.
 

Rebel man

Desmond Connor (43)
Good luck getting approval for taking children out of school for a few hours to play a competition. I suspect that isn’t a fight rugby Victoria would take on. The clubs are way down the list of priority for what the school decision makers would consider.

Private schools are different because it’s allocated time, sanctioned by the school with everything else built around the sporting schedule.
All government school sports run through SSV (School Sports Victoria) is run during class time
 

Members Section

Bob Davidson (42)
Hardwick running out for Quins tomorrow, Worth at Eastwood, Jooste & Ripley with Issack playing the 2nd row???? at UQ, Fourie at souths & Jordy, Eloff, Mason, Zac Hough & Sorovi with no Carter at Wests

*** Ili at Hawks Bay & Josh Hill at Otago playing each other
 
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