Reds 2016

[USARugger]

Houston was/is a gun that I was really disappointed to see go overseas a few years ago - although retaining him with Samo and Higgers both on the books (and in form) would have been difficult.

His presence would immediately change the shape of our back row and bring back some of the dynamism that we've sorely lacked there for a while.

 

[liquor box]

Sweet. We'll swap you Frisby for Stizaker?

Truth be told, i don't have authority to make trades for the Reds, and if I did I would have already traded Richard Graham for a can of coke.

Real coke or homebrand cola? Coke and you are being ripped off

 

[Scoey]

Really? Which of those scrums was moving particularly far towards the try line that it looked like there might be pushover try?

One penalty was against Ryan and another against Tilse. Then Tilse was penalised again and yellow carded.

The other props had left the field injured. Of course it favoured the Waratahs greatly not to bring one of them back on but that was entirely within their rights to do that. It's not like there was a fresh reserve prop on the bench. Every team would have done the same thing in that situation.

I'm not sure when "particularly far" ever became a consideration for awarding a penalty try. The fact of the matter was that we were clearly the stronger scrum. We couldn't move "particularly far forward because the Tahs scrum would infringe on every occasion. This is exactly what penalty tries are for. I don't know why that is so hard to comprehend.

But regardless, after the yellow card, a pushover try or penalty try was inevitable unless of course the scrums went uncontested.

Why would the Tahs do that though? They were clearly advantaged by moving to uncontested scrums and had arrived at that situation due to genuine injuries and the yellow card.

Genuine injuries? This is the bit that really grates me. We will never know how 'genuine' the injuries were. You even called it pre-game that it was entirely possible (maybe even likely) that the Tahs front row would develop mystery injuries as a tactic to get through the match.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a crafty extra prop substitution.

Ryan will come off early for Robbo and then Ta'avao will have some sort of injury late in the game and Ryan will return.

So one had a broken nose and the other had a head knock apparently? That's the thing with the concussion laws. They are designed to stop players going back onto the pitch when they shouldn't. Pretty hard to go back on when you're concussed but if is undesirable for any reason for a player to go back onto the field then the concussion laws are a perfect vehicle to ensure this is the outcome.

Just call a spade a fucking spade. The Tahs manipulated the rules to save their BP. That is it. I get why you're defending your team but in my view it just makes you look as ridiculous as they did on Saturday night.

 

[Aussie D]

I didn't get to see the last 20 minutes so am still unsure why they went to uncontested scrums. From what I can tell Ryan was the starting LH, with T... the starting TH. Robinson was on the bench, one would assume as the nominated replacement LHP. Which therefore leaves Tilse as the replacement THP. If it were Ryan and Tilse on the field why go to uncontested scrums? Or am I missing the fact it was Tilse and T on the field?

 

[Gnostic]

Scoey its a very big reach to say the Tahs manipulated the rules, to do so they gave both their players head knocks 15 minutes before the offending scrums?

Also why didn't Simmons back his pack to drive over from their clearly dominant lineout? He was even given the option of choosing the lineout instead of the uncontested scrum, but chose that way to continue to fruitlessly continue their amazing attack systems to break the line even against 14, much like Wales against the Wallabies in the RWC.

If the Tahs were smart enough to engineer uncontested scrums 15 minutes before it became necessary they would have won by 50 instead of going to sleep for three quarters of the game and needing to hang on desperately for the last 10 minutes.

I know it takes the shine off the only high point of the Reds game, but it is a bit ridiculous to suggest they engineered the situation.

 

[Gnostic]

I didn't get to see the last 20 minutes so am still unsure why they went to uncontested scrums. From what I can tell Ryan was the starting LH, with T. the starting TH. Robinson was on the bench, one would assume as the nominated replacement LHP. Which therefore leaves Tilse as the replacement THP. If it were Ryan and Tilse on the field why go to uncontested scrums? Or am I missing the fact it was Tilse and T on the field?

Ta'avao replaced with broken nose and head knock at start of second half. Robinson took a head knock about the 55 minute mark and was patched up on the field with a cut to the eyebrow. 5 minutes later at next stoppage he was sent to blood/headbin after being on the field for about 10 minutes tops and Ryan came back on as blood replacement. Robinson went up the tunnel and didn't come back to the field. So both Fatcat and Ta'avao were out and then Tilse was binned there was nobody fit to take the field at prop.

 

[Scoey]

I'm not saying that they engineered the situation. I'm saying that if it were to their benefit to keep the scrums contested that they would've had a replacement. I seriously doubt the validity of the 'injuries'.

As for blaming Simmons? Yep I totally agree, that was a dud call. He's as thick as two short planks and certainly no captain but, it's bloody rough to criticise him for the uncontested scrums. That is totally on the Tahs.

 

[Gnostic]

So Scoey you are actually implying they engineered the situation. Robinson went off after playing less than 10 minutes when most would expect him to play at least a half. Ta'avao went off well and truly crocked. This was about 15 minutes before the scrums, how are the injuries not genuine and where does the replacement come from?

 

[fatprop]

I struggle with this 3 hours of scrummaging shit. Sides get suckered into it too often

It rarely works and is just too passive - relying on the ref to interpret stuff your way instead of taking the initiative.

Why not do some proper scrummaging? 1/4 turn, drive on to lock on the defending backrowers down, backs in motion, then some decent work from Frisby to send Kerevi into a one on one close to the line

 

[fatprop]

So Scoey you are actually implying they engineered the situation. Robinson went off after playing less than 10 minutes when most would expect him to play at least a half. Ta'avao went off well and truly crocked. This was about 15 minutes before the scrums, how are the injuries not genuine and where does the replacement come from?

And both are in doubt for this week having to get through concussion protocols to be considered

 

[Scrubber2050]

Really? Which of those scrums was moving particularly far towards the try line that it looked like there might be pushover try?

One penalty was against Ryan and another against Tilse. Then Tilse was penalised again and yellow carded.

The other props had left the field injured. Of course it favoured the Waratahs greatly not to bring one of them back on but that was entirely within their rights to do that. It's not like there was a fresh reserve prop on the bench. Every team would have done the same thing in that situation.

Gardiner was fucking disgraceful.

The Tahs went to water and showed no heart with the scrum debacle. This is a Super 15 team and one of the best running around. That incident showed a real flaw in the culture of the Tahs forwards. Weak as piss.

 

[liquor box]

So if a player is deemed concussed what is the "concussion protocol" that is then used?

Is it a mandatory week off?

If all the Tahs forwards were injured by concussion. Were they confirmed by an independent Doctor on the sideline?

The big question is will they play this week?

If they do play can a "headache" while on the field constitute a concussion related injury given what occurred against the Reds and they can go uncontested?

 

[Scoey]

So Scoey you are actually implying they engineered the situation. Robinson went off after playing less than 10 minutes when most would expect him to play at least a half. Ta'avao went off well and truly crocked. This was about 15 minutes before the scrums, how are the injuries not genuine and where does the replacement come from?

I'm not sure what you're basing your assessment of Ta'avao on, nor where you're getting the 15 mins from either.

Ta'avao went off in the 65th minute, the first of the scrums were in the 72nd minute. Also, Ta'avao didn't go off with a head knock, he looked to have a pretty innocuous shoulder complaint.

 

[fatprop]

I'm not sure what you're basing your assessment of Ta'avao on, nor where you're getting the 15 mins from either.

Ta'avao went off in the 65th minute, the first of the scrums were in the 72nd minute. Also, Ta'avao didn't go off with a head knock, he looked to have a pretty innocuous shoulder complaint.

Ta'avao, broken nose and concussion

 

[Strewthcobber]

So if a player is deemed concussed what is the "concussion protocol" that is then used?

Is it a mandatory week off?

If all the Tahs forwards were injured by concussion. Were they confirmed by an independent Doctor on the sideline?

The big question is will they play this week?

If they do play can a "headache" while on the field constitute a concussion related injury given what occurred against the Reds and they can go uncontested?

Short answer is that they will be assessed by medical pros and will be tested before clearance to training, contact and games. No mandatory stuff at pro levels because of the medical resources they have.

Long answer is Google ARU/sanzar/world Rugby concussion, head injury assessment (HIA) or graduated return to play (GRTP) protocols and you will be inundated with appropriate information.

 

[cyclopath]

Ta'avao, broken nose and concussion

It has been noted a few times that both Robinson and Ta'avao had broken noses and concussion checks, and reported in several media outlets that Robinson is looking unlikely for next week. I'm not sure saying it anymore will convince those who think it was all made up as a plot to fuck the Reds.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Ta'avao, broken nose and concussion

No doubt then that he will be out for a couple of weeks !!!!!!!

Same with Robbo.

Fuck me, are front rowers getting soft ? A broken snout - jeez toughen up. Robbo has played a million super games and tests and I'll betcha he has played thru much more "serious" injuries.

Totally different for serious injuries - player welfare and all of that (which I agree with totally).

Hopefully the rest of the Super teams don't follow the soft option of saying all front rowers are injured and now we have no option but to go uncontested.

 

[Scoey]

Ta'avao, broken nose and concussion

Source? Because everything I can find says that's Benn Robinson. No hits for Ta'avao.

 

[Scoey]

It has been noted a few times that both Robinson and Ta'avao had broken noses and concussion checks, and reported in several media outlets that Robinson is looking unlikely for next week. I'm not sure saying it anymore will convince those who think it was all made up as a plot to fuck the Reds.

It has been noted by people in here that either/or both Robinson and Ta'avao had broken noses and concussion but and I agree that news outlets are reporting that Fatcat may be out next week. Ta'avao on the other hand, left the field after a knock on, he wandered back a few steps, then takes a knee. Medics come and have a quick look at his shoulder and then they take him off 'injured' and Paddy Ryan comes back on. There are no media reports of Ta'avao having a broken nose or concussion that I can find.

I don't think it was a plot to fuck the Reds either - we did that ourselves. It was a manipulation of the laws to save their bonus point.

 

[cyclopath]

It has been noted by people in here that either/or both Robinson and Ta'avao had broken noses and concussion but and I agree that news outlets are reporting that Fatcat may be out next week. Ta'avao on the other hand, left the field after a knock on, he wandered back a few steps, then takes a knee. Medics come and have a quick look at his shoulder and then they take him off 'injured' and Paddy Ryan comes back on. There are no media reports of Ta'avao having a broken nose or concussion that I can find.

I don't think it was a plot to fuck the Reds either - we did that ourselves. It was a manipulation of the laws to save their bonus point.

When you say this:-

I seriously doubt the validity of the 'injuries'

I would say that goes beyond manipulating laws and into the realms of some sort of conspiracy. Implying the medical staff are inventing injuries is a fairly big statement.