Reds 2017

[TOCC]

To be fair, MOC was brought back from overseas as part of that search, not saying he is the right coach though.

This argument for Australian coaches is an interesting one, and needs to be part of the ARU broader strategic plan. I would prefer Australia go down the path of New Zealand with NZRU having greater vested interest in the provinces and control over coaching.

That way coaching development pathways can be put in place, a natural progression not to dissimilar to the players, from schoolboy up through age group representative to Super Rugby.

Super Rugby assistant coaches should be cutting their teeth as NRC coaches, potential future Wallaby coaches should be placed in charge of the U20s for a year or two. Too often assistant coaches have been promoted to HC with zero or limited HC experience at a semi-professional or even amateur level.

It's one thing to demand Australian coaches, but it's another to have the pathway in place to produce those coaches. What's the ARU's interest in the Reds coach, to have a Australian coach so they can trial him as a future Wallabies coach, or the best coach available regardless of nationality?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Understand why the ARU want an involvement

I want the best coach available for my franchise, irrespective of nationality.

My preference would be a Queenslander, then Australian but in the absence of either I'd swallow my pride and opt for a Kiwi nefore any others

 

[Scoey]

I don't really understand all of that. I just want the best coach we can get. I have less than zero interest in whether he/she/it is Australian, Kiwi, English, some sort of weird AI coaching robot or Alien for that matter.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Coaching is not just about the match.

HC is responsible (together with players) for creating a culture (both on and off the field. He needs to engage with not only players but many others in the overall rugby community.

Obviously "locals" have an immediate heads up in the "culture" stakes, Kiwis are not dissimilar to us and that is why I would preference them to Soapies, Saffas, Frogs and the like.

However Scoey I appreciate your point of view, as always

 

[USARugger]

Yeah I think culture gets a little easier to manage when there's a clear, effective game plan in place and we aren't getting pasted by sides we were smashing a few years ago.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Yeah I think culture gets a little easier to manage when there's a clear, effective game plan in place and we aren't getting pasted by sides we were smashing a few years ago.

Mate agree particularly when the game plan is actually achievable by the quality of players in the squad

 

[Brumby Runner]

Fuck - "plans" are piss easy to formulate.

The key is implementation.

MOC has shown nothing to inspire anybody, his "plan" for the backs this year has been great, the implementing a dismal failure.

I'm also concerned that with 7 (is it?) members on the interview committee, there is likely to be 7 different opinions about what constitutes a good plan. Not sure how this should play out, but I have a feeling that proven performance should take precedence over some waffley plan that might have been sketched out on the back of a bus ticket.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I'm also concerned that with 7 (is it?) members on the interview committee, there is likely to be 7 different opinions about what constitutes a good plan. Not sure how this should play out, but I have a feeling that proven performance should take precedence over some waffley plan that might have been sketched out on the back of a bus ticket.

Would you say winning a Guinness Premiership and the Pro12 competition as a head coach would show previous proven performance?


I can sort of see where they are coming from. Any coach who has made it to the interview stage has to have proven their performance to some extent, else they wouldn't have made it to the short list.

After that it gets pretty subjective, and as we've seen in every sport but particularly rugby, nobody really knows what makes a successful coach.

All you can do is put someone in who you think has the best chance of being successful given the many and varied constraints.

 

[TOCC]

I'm also concerned that with 7 (is it?) members on the interview committee, there is likely to be 7 different opinions about what constitutes a good plan.

Yeah should just be one person dictating what occurs, that usually works out well

 

[Scrubber2050]

Didn't work with Stalin, Hitler, Amin and some others

A group decision is better IMO (as long as I agree with it )

 

[The torpedo]

Ben Daley to Force. Announced it on rugby 360.

 

[Scoey]

Losing some bloody good club men.

That's the stuff that's really bloody hard to replace. When you talk of culture, it often starts with these blokes.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

the only players left from the 2011 final are Jake Schatz and Rob Simmons

 

[RugbyReg]

James Slipper

 

[Gillys_ghost]

woops, i should have said 2011 final, my bad

 

[Scoey]

Leroy was with the Reds in 2011 too I'm pretty sure.

 

[USARugger]

He was

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah should just be one person dictating what occurs, that usually works out well

I take your comment to contain a high proportion of sarcasm TOCC.

If I'm right, then I wonder precisely what sort of plan they are looking for. Surely not a game plan, so must be some consideration of how to move the franchise forward and into a winning culture. The foreign or outside the Reds' setup coaches would have to be at a disadvantage because they would be unlikely to know exactly what the problems are to address them in an interview situation. How would they know what sort of financial situation the franchise is in, and how much money is available for recruitment/retention of players, what the real player deficiencies are and what the talent is like coming through in positions where there might be weakness.

And then when they attempt to address these issues and more, how would their 'plans' align with the thinking of seven separate members of the assessment panel, some of whom are intimately associated with the Reds and some who are outsiders with who knows what brief they have from the ARU.

I am not confident the system is likely to identify the best candidate for the job.

 

[dru]

I am not confident the system is likely to identify the best candidate for the job.

Oh for goodness sake.

Any selection system for the head role in any industry would require a plan going forward. Incumbents and 2ICs will allways have the inside run on information (and the political layout) and should seek advantage in this. But outsiders can bring a fresh approach. One thing for sure you're not getting the job if you cant map out a way forward.

Any_industry.

The other issue Brumby Runner, is when you say "the system", are you refering to the snippets we get through media leaks or actually what is happening? What we know of "the system" is the most thorough and visible system we have seen to date. Big thumbs up.

We have a report in the Australian that a Plan put MOC into the box seat. Good. He is using his time and I like that he has hunger for the job. He will also apply for Force, his local advantage dwindles there but still gets mentioned with respect in that particular battle.

Hope Stiles is also using his advantages and is hungry. I hope the other Aussies are sheeting home the purported advantage of being an Aussie. Personally I dont think its relevant but if the applicant cant make use of advantage how will he go in a job where every advantage must be sought? I hope the foreigners are maxing out their achievements, their advantages.

There is nothing, just nothing, imo, that we are seeing other than a very professional and thorough approach to getting the best HC available.

Like all Reds fans, I''ll have some knee jerk reaction with some of the names if successful. But lets roll with it.

 

[TOCC]

It bemuses me people have taken this snippet from a Wayne Smith article and run with it, there were no quotes or facts just a bit of speculation from Wayne Smiths part...