Adam84
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Why rest him 2 weeks before a Bye round if he isn’t injured?
Reds 2022
- Thread starter RugbyReg
- Start date
liquor box
Greg Davis (50)
Is he allowed to call witnesses?
I think he should get the referee and TMO to attend and explain why no action was taken even after a review.
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
I had wondered if the match officials are asked to outline their position in these hearings, especially given that they've had a chance to reassess
The Nomad
Bob Davidson (42)
I know the hearing isn’t about him charging the ruck, but that said, if he doesn’t charge like an angry bull into that clean out nobody even notices where first point of contact is. It looked reckless in real time which is why the refs asked for it to be checked.
In terms of player safety and who is responsible it should come down who decides the outcome.
A pick and drive from one metre out from the try line nearly always involves the ball carrier diving head first into the defence at about shin height. Does anyone have an issue with point of contact being above the shoulders in that situation? Or the defender not wrapping ?
When going for a pilfer and your head is down hard against the ball carrier you’ve chosen to put your head there , nobody has put it there for you. How can contact not be above shoulder level ? It’s a totally different situation to being tackled in an upright position above the shoulders or being played at when in the air or being lifted and inversed during a clean out. None of those are postions you’ve chosen to be in .
Anyway rant over, just think TT doesn’t get noticed without the force component to it. If it’s purely point of contact in a ruck or maul we may not have enough Super Rugby players left to finish the season if SANZAR are consistant.
In terms of player safety and who is responsible it should come down who decides the outcome.
A pick and drive from one metre out from the try line nearly always involves the ball carrier diving head first into the defence at about shin height. Does anyone have an issue with point of contact being above the shoulders in that situation? Or the defender not wrapping ?
When going for a pilfer and your head is down hard against the ball carrier you’ve chosen to put your head there , nobody has put it there for you. How can contact not be above shoulder level ? It’s a totally different situation to being tackled in an upright position above the shoulders or being played at when in the air or being lifted and inversed during a clean out. None of those are postions you’ve chosen to be in .
Anyway rant over, just think TT doesn’t get noticed without the force component to it. If it’s purely point of contact in a ruck or maul we may not have enough Super Rugby players left to finish the season if SANZAR are consistant.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
I know, I’m not a fan. It’s the same with Bell.
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Guest
So let me put this idea into your thoughts.
When referees (and TMO) make decisions we are all encouraged, coached, taught and expected to accept the decision and move on.
This starts from the youngest of junior games all the way to test match rugby across the world.
In this case the event was seen by the referee in real time, then referred to the TMO for a second opinion. We know the result of that process , no further sanction, and TT finished the game.
Why then can some people (SANZAAR) decide they don't like the referee and TMO decision and instigate proceedings to usurp them?
My thought is they should be expected to abide by the referee call, like the rest of us in the game. If there is something they don't like about the referee decision then take it up with the referee / TMO behind closed doors ie training, demotion, sacking etc
Dissent of referee decisions and open castigation of referees is seriously frowned upon as it is the major reason insufficient people take up the role.
Just my 2 cents.
TSR
Mark Ella (57)
I get what you are saying and I posted yesterday about him maybe having to back off a bit, so largely I agree.
But I will play devils advocate here too. He DOES do this quite often and because of how he charges in they regularly get reviewed. I can’t think of the last time one was found to be illegal. Maybe we should be praising him for how accurate he is (obviously I am hoping that doesn’t come back at me with todays hearing).
I do think some of the negative commentary (this bit is not really aimed at you Nomad) fails to take into account these guys are pro athletes, with terrific flexibility and core strength, who can operate at these low heights in a much more controlled manner.
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
While I mostly agree with this perspective, I think that it's important to note SANZAAR citing Tupou is independent of the on-field decision, i.e. it's likely he would've been cited even if he was penalised/carded. As the governing body, SANZAAR have a duty to provide oversight and accountability of how the game is played, and if they deem this incident to be foul play, then that's their prerogative. No doubt Murphy and the TMO will be spoken to about their decision making as well, however human error cannot be eliminated.
There will always be situations that armchair analysts like ourselves deem 'fair' and 'unfair' when this sort of thing occurs, but I think they need to have some sort of safety net in place to ensure that, at least by their interpretation of the laws, the game is played appropriately and accountability is maintained. Consistency in the application is key, and that is probably where some work needs to be done.
I'm interested to see what sort of precedent this may set for the future, as I can't really remember a case like it. Maybe that's because referees have developed a tendency to err on the side of safety when it comes to assessment of dangerous play?
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
Croc roll - arguably more dangerous
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The biggest disappointment for me from all of this is it will continue to drive the game to look like a quasi RL match.
No contest at the break down where a player gets tackled, "plays" the ball back, tackler gets out of the way, Halfback / dummy half clears the ball.
We actually have coaching now not committing players to the breakdown contest.
While I continue to advocate for safety, I understood these rules were intended to get rid of the deliberate "head hunter" actions like swinging arms in tackles etc.
Trying adjudicate first contact (head or shoulder) should not be part of the discussion. It should be about the intent of the player.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
Ah that's true, not technically injured I guess but yes a front rower with back spasms being rested is different from a centre for no apparent reason.
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Realistically, holding players accountable for (acute) head contact is the only way to disincentive actions that could lead to it, unintended or otherwise. CTE doesn't care whether or not there was intent, and you can't fully advocate for player safety without wanting the laws of the game to reflect this.
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so if we want independance why not get some dodgy old fool from world rugby in England review the video? we wouldnt accept that so why accept SA and Argentina get a say.
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
What? This was about accountability - I never said anything about independence or nationality, let alone suggest bias from officials of two nations who aren’t even part of the comp anymore
On your point though, I think oversight at an international level is great for the game and goes a ways to promote consistency across the sport which, when we get around to Test time, can only be a good thing.
A representative from Argentina is rarely involved in a SANZAAR disciplinary matter. The only one who I can see as having previous involvement is the former referee José Luis Rolandi. He has also been on RWC judiciary panels.
Generally the panels are barristers and lawyers with sports law and prior judiciary experience and a former player.
Tupou's panel is a NZ barrister, NZ lawyer and a former South African player.
SANZAAR is run out of Sydney.
Rebelwatcher
Frank Row (1)
Petaia was recruited as a fullback. Kerevi was injured for most of his first season (2018)so the kid was thrown into the centres. Only now he is getting the opportunity he was originally recruited for. Check history it was Thorn who marked him as a future FB but circumstances have meant he has plugged holes at centre and wing. Talk to anyone who saw him play his final year of HS he was destined to be a FB his coaches were surprised to hear the banter pushing him to center. Maybe he will just be a great utility player now can play 4 positions but be nice to see him have some consistent time at FB to develop. He had a great kicking game in HS but due to position he fell behind in pecking order. Hopefully he will now be allowed to focus instead of the coaches using him as their go to stop gap . But its a team sport so I am sure he will do whatever the coaches require, very unselfish player wants whats best for the team. I know my son played with him in league where he also excelled and his dad pushed him to put the team first and stay humble. One year he won the B&F ( as often was case) but his dad was involved in the coaching group so he told them to award to another player to encourage that player - Jordan was really happy for the kid too. Funny when you read things about him from people who have no idea of his background and his work ethic. Just turned 22 so time to improve as no where near his peak yet. And the news he has rejected a massive offer from England to stay loyal to Australian rugby shows where his heart and priorities are. Still grieving for his Dad but also likely inspired by the tragedy . Really disappointing at times to see how people overly critique him instead of having a complete view of a young developing player who wants to serve his country well. All the best Jordan you do you !
Jimmy_Crouch
Ken Catchpole (46)
When back from injury I think ASY (Angus Scott-Young) should turn himself in a lock in the same mold of his coach.