RWC 2011 - Bitch, moan and discuss - Referees and Law Discussions

[whatty]

Its just another "Oh the ref was Barnes therefore he must have been shyte and wrong" article.

whinge, whinge it is soooooo boring.....

 

[antipodean]

I love it how the pass that led to the French try in the 2007 quarter final is now obviously forward by a mile

It was obviously forward.

when in reality it was a short, line ball pass

Talk about historical revisionism.

 

[Jnor]

One thing I find almost as interesting as the difference between refs is the difference in how we view them.

As a general rule I'd say all us aussies are pretty big fans of Barnes while a lot of kiwis and some in the NH seem to think he's the worst ref ever. I'd also say we have a much dimmer view of Bryce than most other supporters. Same goes for Kaplan (although perhaps not so much in recent times).

Can't think of any other examples atm but I'm sure they're there. Is it just about the way a certain ref operates fitting more naturally with the way certain teams play?

 

[Braveheart81]

It was obviously forward.


Talk about historical revisionism.

There was a massive discussion about this a couple of weeks ago complete with screenshots and the video of the play.

It was a short pass. Michelak basically ran off his shoulder. Barnes was still running over from the previous ruck so was nowhere near in line with it to make a call and by the look of things the ABs winger would have pretty much been in between the touch judge and the play making it hard for the touch judge to make a call.

 

[Top Bloke]

1. I don't know if Contepomi was more that 1 metre off-side but he pretty clearly off-side. Contepomi himself has even said he was off-side. It wasn't a border-line call, to most watching the game it was obvious.

2. Yeah. A bit hyperbolic but he's trying to make a point.

3. Again - is that rubbish just because you've said so? Patently.

Yeah he was "probably" offside - but the writer implies that it must have been obvious to everyone except Barnes with his use of "Metres"

No it is rubbish because the writer offers an unsubstantiated claim that Barnes refuses to make "Bold" calls - and refuses to enforece the laws of the game. - What on earth is a "Bold Call" - Either the ref sees it or he doesn't - but the writer is claiming to somehow know what Barnes is thinking. (eg Barnes sees the offside but thinks "Ohh it was offside, but if I blow that one it will be controversial so I won't blow my whistle)

 

[Bullrush]

One thing I find almost as interesting as the difference between refs is the difference in how we view them.

As a general rule I'd say all us aussies are pretty big fans of Barnes while a lot of kiwis and some in the NH seem to think he's the worst ref ever. I'd also say we have a much dimmer view of Bryce than most other supporters. Same goes for Kaplan (although perhaps not so much in recent times).

Can't think of any other examples atm but I'm sure they're there. Is it just about the way a certain ref operates fitting more naturally with the way certain teams play?

As a very broad generalisation, I'd say that Kiwi's aren't as pedantic on the breakdown as Aussies are. I think we take more of the view that if you're making dominant tackles, driving the opposition back in rucks and getting there in numbers and generally just owning the other pack up-front, you should get the 'rub of the green' so to speak. It seems wrong to penalise a team making most of the play.

I repeat - broad generalistaion.

 

[Jay]

I love it how the pass that led to the French try in the 2007 quarter final is now obviously forward by a mile when in reality it was a short, line ball pass that neither the referee nor the touch judge were likely to get a good view of.

I agree neither were in a position to see it, but it wasn't line ball. It was obviously forward.

 

[minorbird]

On flip side I think Australians see it as if you are achieving that dominance through means that breaking the law (e.g. counter-rucking as a group but coming through the gate in doing so so the ref can't ping a single person for it, flopping over the tackled player so his own team members can't drive past the ball, loitering in front of the play in the defensive line so you can drive over the ball surreptitiously from the side) then the ref really should be penalizing that stuff, and it is the responsibility of the players to not to bring the referee into the game too much.
But I suppose all it comes down to is the collective ability of a team to adapt to the rulings of the ref during the game, something I think the Wallabies (but curiously not all of the Australian Super teams) manage to do. I really wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the more prepared teams look who is refereeing that week, to gauge how much they can push it.

 

[Jay]

One thing I find almost as interesting as the difference between refs is the difference in how we view them.

As a general rule I'd say all us aussies are pretty big fans of Barnes while a lot of kiwis and some in the NH seem to think he's the worst ref ever. I'd also say we have a much dimmer view of Bryce than most other supporters. Same goes for Kaplan (although perhaps not so much in recent times).

Can't think of any other examples atm but I'm sure they're there. Is it just about the way a certain ref operates fitting more naturally with the way certain teams play?

Re: Barnes, I'd say that most Kiwis who pay attention actually think he's been a very good ref over the last few years. I don't think the tone of that article is particularly reflective of the general opinion of him. No doubt there are a fair few kneejerk types who can't get over Cardiff or haven't been paying attention to his subsequent performances, but I'd say he's generally rated highly. That said, I think he's not been performing up to that standard in his WC performances so far - nothing on the level of his Cardiff performance, but not up to the standard that had many rating him as one of the top two or three in the world.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

...snip....

It's like in a few years time we'll be talking about that time when Al Baxter ran 40 metres to score his first ever Super Rugby try for the Waratahs, beating half a dozen defenders in the process.

I was at that game. I reckon it was more like a 50 metre run, with 2 dummies AND a left foot side step, two broken tackles and an awesome fend on the opposition #8 coming across in cover defence.

 

[Top Bloke]

I agree neither were in a position to see it, but it wasn't line ball. It was obviously forward.

Can we all refrain from re-litigating that episode - it is history, gone, done, dusted, chewed up, spat out, rewritten, cried over, jumped on, kicked about, mulled over, analysed, over analysed, forgotten, remembered, forgotten, remembered again.

 

[Braveheart81]

I was there too. Along with the other 85,000 fans at the Sydney Football Stadium.

 

[Bullrush]

Can we all refrain from re-litigating that episode - it is history, gone, done, dusted, chewed up, spat out, rewritten, cried over, jumped on, kicked about, mulled over, analysed, over analysed, forgotten, remembered, forgotten, remembered again.

I'd like to see some more slow-mo replays and frame-by-frame shots with a scientific explantions of 'forward', 'momentum', 'movement' etc.....LOL

 

[antipodean]

There was a massive discussion about this a couple of weeks ago complete with screenshots and the video of the play.

It was a short pass.

Yes, a short forward pass.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

This thread is about the 2011 world cup. Maybe find the 2007 WC thread for this discussion

 

[HKTiger]

And our kiwi friends claim we have chips on our shoulders over the possible/probable "unwelcoming" all black fans.

Pot, kettle, black.

 

[Swat]

I was at that game. I reckon it was more like a 50 metre run, with 2 dummies AND a left foot side step, two broken tackles and an awesome fend on the opposition #8 coming across in cover defence.

I was also there, although I saw it a bit differently.... I'm pretty sure there was a chip n chase in there.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I was also there, although I saw it a bit differently.... I'm pretty sure there was a chip n chase in there.

There was, I distinctly remember that but because that was before the streaker tried to tackle him after the regather from the chip and chase, I didn't think it was a significant part of the 75 metre movement for the try.

Coming back to Barnsey, can't we just accept that he is a polarising figure with his performances.

 

[Nusadan]

I was at that game. I reckon it was more like a 50 metre run, with 2 dummies AND a left foot side step, two broken tackles and an awesome fend on the opposition #8 coming across in cover defence.

You forgot the 'Ashton' swan dive at the end...

 

[Hawko]

Slightly different, but...

A couple of years ago Palu was yellow carded for an act of foul play after the Tahs scored a try against the Highlanders...

The try had already been awarded, and the Highlanders received a penalty on the half way line after teh Tahs' conversion...

This incident still has me fired right up, years later. I was in the stand in Dunedin on the other side of the ground and it was still blatantly obvious from where I was what happened. Palu dived into the in-goal area to score the try. Jimmie Cowan following on from the side dived on him on the ground (late) and hit him with his elbow on the side of the head. Similar to Loe but with less injury. Obviously didn't hit the jaw, thankfully, and Palu got up and whacked him. All this happened right in front of the referee and his assistant.

Referee awarded the try and then gave Palu a yellow card. Cowan escaped scot free. One of the poorest decisions on foul play I have ever seen.