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School sporting scholarships/recruitment

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pitbull

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technically state high dont import, as it is a selective school. so they can just pick anyone they want right?
correct me if im wrong
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Why do headmasters award sporting scholarships? . In reality they only award sporting scholarships because ohters do - to keep up.. While some GPS schools may now have between 5 and 10 kids on scholarship, how many will it be in 10 years? It is the slow creep of professional sport into schoolboy ranks and it will eventually get very ugly. In the United States the mix of expensive education and sports scholarships has resulted in 7 per cent (500,000) of all Y12 kids using steroids to gain and maintain these scholarships, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association. Most admitted they started using the drugs by the age of fourteen.

Surely the money it costs to subsidise full board and fees for 10 athlete/students could pay the wages of 5 GPS teachers (and a rugby coach) who would teach 150 kids in Tonga or remote areas of Australia.
 

Informer

Ward Prentice (10)
It is this ugly commercialisation and creeping ratcheting up of the stakes that I detest. The idea of "they do so we have to" is why they put the codes in place in the first place. The remaining schools should threaten to expel the offenders, not just roll over and adopt the same attitude. THE GPS and CAS have proud traditions that are being debased by the drive to compete on and off the field. In my son's CAS school it is never going to be happen, even after they came last and I respect them for that. As parents we got together last year with the head and master in charge of rugby and worked up a 5 year program that will hopefully optimise the talent on hand.
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
My understanding is that Nudgee, State High, Ippy, Churchie, TSS and BGS all recruit players to some degree. I know GT don't. BBC and TGS I am not sure of. I know TGS had a deal with the Broncos and league scholarships but don't know if it still happens.

From what I have read and heard TSS seem to take a bit more of a whole of person approach. They seem to actively want the student to improve academically where as other schools don't see that as a priority. IGS also has had a couple of success stories that I know of. Albert Anae is a perfect example. Went there and became a prefect and is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. He talks in glowing terms about his time at school and will tell you it changed his life.

You're pretty much correct. Every school apart from terrace offers rugby scholarships in some way, shape or form. Traditionally BBC, Grammar and TGS have only offered the odd one, and most of the time it might only be a partial busary. But grammar's poor results over the last few seasons have meant that this year there first XV had 4 boys of Schollarships, and another 2 or 3 boys who had come to the school just for senior, but im not sure if they were full fee paying or not.

The problem is that the more nudgee (and to a lesser extent tss and churchie) import, the more other schools feel the need to follow suit. It also means that the schools that dont import have to spend more money on hi-tech rugby programs just to stay competitive.

The injustice in all this is that terrace had a 14a team that won the premiership in 2007 (and had come a close second in 2006), they get to senior year, and the best they can manage is tied 4th. Futhermore, in the 16a's last year, the terrace team (which was missing quite a few blokes to injury and 1st 15 duty) flogged the grammar 16a's. Then this year all of a sudden grammar come on leaps and bounds and have a close win over terrace. Now I'm not trying to take away from grammar's season or put shit on there first XV, because I thought they played very well and did there school proud. But I think behavour of this kind by the school is a reflection of there values, and not a good one at that.

I've made my opinion on this clear earlyer in the thread. From a pro development point of view, maybe a total ban isnt the answer, but as i said earlyer, at the end of the day some schools are turning the GPS rugby comp into a farce, and that just isnt right.

My facts may not be 100 percent (feel free to correct me) but for the most part they are right.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Phil Kearns (64)
This makes very interesting reading. I'm tossing up between public and private for my kids when they hit high school age. We have both styles within a short distance from our house, so all options will be on the table.

I have to say that the issue of sports scholarships is a head scratcher. How a school performs at sport is right at the bottom of my list of priorities as a parent. It seems that a lot of parents have a lot invested in the success of a school outside of academic results, especially alumni. I have to admit that I totally do not understand this. But then again, not being a product of that environment, I don't understand the old school tie rah rah stuff anyway.
 

lincoln

Bob Loudon (25)
Tonight in the youth olympics was a swimmer who in year 7 was at North Sydney Boys High (academically one of the best in the State) and in year 8 (having been state 12 year old champion) decides to go to Trinity. You can't tell me he went for a "CAS" education. Stop going on about they want a "GPS" or "CAS" education - it is all about sport.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I have to say that the issue of sports scholarships is a head scratcher. How a school performs at sport is right at the bottom of my list of priorities as a parent. It seems that a lot of parents have a lot invested in the success of a school outside of academic results, especially alumni. I have to admit that I totally do not understand this. But then again, not being a product of that environment, I don't understand the old school tie rah rah stuff anyway.

I think this needs to be kept in perspective though. It is not like they are bringing in whole sides like colleges do in the US. The way it works at one Sydney GPS school is through an external Old Boys/Parents group which all chip in to provide one or two scholarships for senior boys. This is generally a top rugby player, about 5 years ago it was a star year 11 player at St Aloys, but generally they are from the country. The school retains a degree of deniability, and the one or two star players spearhead that years 1sts, which the parents and old boys seem to care so much about.

I am against it, for the reason you state- sport should be treated as a game, with the object being not to win but to develop teamwork skills, discipline, and a degree of physical health. Its a bit old school I suppose, but it is down low on the priority list thats for sure.
 

qwerty51

George Gregan (70)
Tonight in the youth olympics was a swimmer who in year 7 was at North Sydney Boys High (academically one of the best in the State) and in year 8 (having been state 12 year old champion) decides to go to Trinity. You can't tell me he went for a "CAS" education. Stop going on about they want a "GPS" or "CAS" education - it is all about sport.

If it was all about sport they would go to a sports school. I'm sure parents want their kids to have a decent education too. CAS/GPS schools provide this.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Phil Kearns (64)
Thanks Barbarian for the perspective. As I say, I find it completely foreign to be dishing out sports scholarships.

When I started playing footy outside of high-school age, I was the only bloke without a private school education in our Div I Colts team and I have to say that PSA school (our version of GPS in the West) pissing contests that used to go on between these blokes was pretty hilarious.
 

qwerty51

George Gregan (70)
I can honestly say Saturday sport is by far my fondest memory of HS and people who go to public schools are missing out. Nothing beats being in a 1st/2nd team at your school, those mates will be your best mates after HS.
 

lincoln

Bob Loudon (25)
Hot off the press - the richest school in Sydney is looking for a new Headmaster. Rumour has it the council is bemoaning the lack of sporting success over the last two decades and has a mission to get all those rich parents/old boys to help recruit the best sporting talent in the country - apocalypse now!
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Phil Kearns (64)
I can honestly say Saturday sport is by far my fondest memory of HS and people who go to public schools are missing out. Nothing beats being in a 1st/2nd team at your school, those mates will be your best mates after HS.

I could honestly say the same about playing Saturday club footy as a junior and senior. Not sure about over East, but nearly every one of my private school attending mates played sport because they were compelled to. My best mate loves the game, but hated being told by his headmaster (a former sportsman of some note himself) that he would be playing rugby and rowing whether he wanted to or not.
 

qwerty51

George Gregan (70)
Hot off the press - the richest school in Sydney is looking for a new Headmaster. Rumour has it the council is bemoaning the lack of sporting success over the last two decades and has a mission to get all those rich parents/old boys to help recruit the best sporting talent in the country - apocalypse now!

The Kings School? They bought in scholarships for this year in order to win the premiership like in '08 am I right?
 

lincoln

Bob Loudon (25)
The Kings School? They bought in scholarships for this year in order to win the premiership like in '08 am I right?
- NO NOT KINGS

Update - the School's Council have appointed a renown international firm of headhunters to assist. They have been instructed to look beyond the obvious 4 candidates in Sydney and all the South Qld schools (excluding Nudgee for religious reasons). Bookies are even offering odds on the principal of a well known school in West Texas.

Meanwhile, booster groups will be formed to pay the fees - so NO scholarships are involved which would be a breach of their association's code of conduct. In addition, parents of potential recruits will be feted like IOC delegates and may even receive sign on bonuses and have their mortagages paid.


Really guys - is this where we want to end up with this whole sporting scholarship issue - ultimately the rich will win and there will be no equity. As suggested before the ARU and NSWRU could support the State Sports Schools in retaining the best talent - if that means contracts for 16 year olds then so be it - and using Colts as the pathway. We need a strong CHS to extend the appeal of the game beyond the AAGPS/CAS/ISA schools if we are to compete with NRL, AFL, and football. This all about grassroots not leather patches.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I can't say I understand you Lincoln. The 'rumour' sounds to me like total bollocks, and then your last paragraph is even more confusing. No-one wants sporting scholarships here, so I don't know how you draw your conclusions.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
technically state high dont import, as it is a selective school. so they can just pick anyone they want right?
correct me if im wrong

State High offer opportunities for students outside their school zone to attend on the basis of academic, musical and sporting achievement from what I understand (they may offer them in other area too). While it isn't a scholarship for the purposes of this debate they do "import" these students to the school.
 

Elfster

Dave Cowper (27)
It isn't school scholarships, but I overheard how some money is getting into school sport at the last school game I saw this year. THat is AFL: that sport seems to be very well funded and is quite intent on "buying" their way into some of the school systems. AFL offers assistance through free seminars, external coaches and other peripheral support. It is as if schools are being offered monetary advantages to "take up" AFL. Probably a question on how the ARU is looking at supporting the grassroots or just leeting it fade away in the face of competitors. Unfortunately all sports need to vigorously compete for new players, by means fair or foul.
 
U

Upright

Guest
The Kings School? They bought in scholarships for this year in order to win the premiership like in '08 am I right?

IMO this whole thing is out of kilter and is driven by this desire to chest beat(often by old boys who can't move on) courtesy of winning some "title" which the great majority of people don't know about nor care about. Sorry I can't tell you who won the CAS swimming last year, nor do I know who won the GPS basketball and more importantly nor do i care! The argument about "a better' education is also a furphy. The GPS and CAS schools, like many high schools and systemic ones, provide an environment where learning is encouraged however no amout of encouragement serves as a guarantee of anthing scholastically if the raw product is of a poor quality. Sadly the schools prostitute themselves to entice parents and in some cases the parent see it as a fast tack to sporting glory when in reality very few progress be it in cricket, rugby, tennis, swimming whatever you want,to any great heights.
 

Informer

Ward Prentice (10)
I can honestly say Saturday sport is by far my fondest memory of HS and people who go to public schools are missing out. Nothing beats being in a 1st/2nd team at your school, those mates will be your best mates after HS.

Thats why we have club rugby so that they don't have to miss out, in fact CAS can get the double, school and club in one week.
 
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