School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Bowside]

"Is this not the same as a bunch of old boys providing similar assistance to a good rugby player. I really see no problem with this provided the kid is brought in year 7 and developed for the next 6 years in that particular school's environment.

That being said, I have some philosophical difficulties with philanthropic associations related to schools poaching boys in year 11 or 12 solely for the purpose of playing for the 1st XV."

Nail on the head.

 

[Lee Grant]

Good post Big Bum

I had read those comments on another forum and they broaden the discussion. As Bowside remarks it is the "late comers" on scholarships that grate though we could never blame a family, let alone the boy, for accepting such.

 

[NorthernSon]

Hmmm, NSW Junior Country selectors confirm that the $ raids on talent continue with the Kings School again setting themselves up to piss off most of the year 10 and 11 boys and full fee paying parents by helicoptering in NSW U/15 no9 Rory Davis. This time around though they are really shopping and the kid has a brain and good skills and the school is not waiting for pushy parents to knock on their door selling their boys as cattle.

 

[Scarfman]

Hey, Northern Son. Sounds like you've got a valuable piece of information here. Why load it up with so much bullcrap? I've just deleted a post in another thread, and a couple more of those are you are banned. Seems like a waste if you've got good stuff to talk about. Just tone it down, eh?

 

[NorthernSon]

Hmm Scarfman, gave myself an upper cut!
Also keep an eye out on 3 Sydney & NSW U/15 reps heading for Newington for 2012 and 2013 titles, will be confirmed following the game against QLD but this could be a short dynsaty run like Joeys of 04 -07.

 

[Scarfman]

Hmm Scarfman, gave myself an upper cut!
Also keep an eye out on 3 Sydney & NSW U/15 reps heading for Newington for 2012 and 2013 titles, will be confirmed following the game against QLD but this could be a short dynsaty run like Joeys of 04 -07.

Cheers for the self-uppercut. Probably worse than me doing it.

Interesting rumour - keep us up to date.

 

[AussieDominance]

Shore 2nds and 3rd 2010 had a good mix of year 11 real talent. They will experience their best season since James Packer locked for the 4th XV if the rowing boys are allowed to spread their talents and Merro will captain at 9.

Kings are on the usual spending spree with Country & NSW 15's number 9 Rory Davis being helicoptered in with a 75% scholarship, I pitty the Kings year 9/10 and 11 halves as Steven James will need a return on his investment and young Rory to go straight to 1sts after 2 trials.

Joeys year 12 2011 are a soft crew and hence the catholics will be in a building phase but with some real talent in 16's and 15's to impress.

Newington to press again but they will miss Apo.

Scots and Grammar to share the spoils of the spoon

Think you misunderstand the scholarship kids here. They don't just get put straight into the First or Seconds. Last year one of them played 4ths on a 50% scholarship.

Rory Davis won't play firsts, Jude Prater is in the 16's and is in NSW Schools U16. Rory will play 16A's.

 

[NorthernSon]

Think you misunderstand the scholarship kids here. They don't just get put straight into the First or Seconds. Last year one of them played 4ths on a 50% scholarship.

Rory Davis won't play firsts, Jude Prater is in the 16's and is in NSW Schools U16. Rory will play 16A's.

Hmmm, Can you ask the Kings 2009/10 2nds and 3rds Flankers how they felt when Killingworth and Connor were brought late in schooling as "hired guns" to secure premeirships. ( Joint 2009, but failed to physical contests V New & Joeys 2010)

If Rory Davis is going into year 11, he will be the starting 9 by the end of the trials. All reports from the annual Country vs Sydney games is he is in the Will Genia mould and Jude Prater although solid will become another casualty of the system.

 

[QuadeCooperFan]

I suggest you stop posting this anti Kings stuff. It is clear you have some sort of personal grudge against Kings which is clouding your judgement. You even go as far to imply that Kings's two losses this season are the fault of Connor and Killingworth.

Prater will be Kings 1sts halfback next year. You can bet on that.

Also, you mention that the addition of Connor and Killingworth meant that the other flankers who had been a part of that age group (1992) were shafted. Do you want to know who those two flankers are? James Carling (who finished last year, AND was in the 1sts AND was in GPS 1sts) and Jack Leslie (who maintained his position in the 1sts, he just switched to second row)

So please, do us a favour and stop spinning your anti Kings propaganda.

 

[northman91]

I suggest you stop posting this anti Kings stuff. It is clear you have some sort of personal grudge against Kings which is clouding your judgement. You even go as far to imply that Kings's two losses this season are the fault of Connor and Killingworth.

Prater will be Kings 1sts halfback next year. You can bet on that.

Also, you mention that the addition of Connor and Killingworth meant that the other flankers who had been a part of that age group (1992) were shafted. Do you want to know who those two flankers are? James Carling (who finished last year, AND was in the 1sts AND was in GPS 1sts) and Jack Leslie (who maintained his position in the 1sts, he just switched to second row)

So please, do us a favour and stop spinning your anti Kings propaganda.

Sorry but poor Chris Sheather, played a handful of games in the 1st XV in 08 when Josh Elice-Flint was out injured. Then in 2009 was only in the 2nds.....

 

[AussieDominance]

Re comment above think you would find Boyd Killingworth earned his place through the seconds rather than taking the place. Sheather had every oppurtunity.

 

[NorthernSon]

Hmmm, Sorry I rattled a few cages on my personal thoughts on a Kings approach to pursuing AAGPS rugby success through helicoptering in 75% sponsorsed human resources.

It hurts though that such a well documented breach of AAGPS policy continues at the expense of other schools such as SHORE, GRAMMAR and JOEYS.

I will hereby refrain from naming the guilty parties and move on in the hope that the AAGPS executive one day take a stand.

 

[baldingwingforward]

Keep going Northernson. I whole heartedly support your honesty. You may well have as you say "rattled a few cages" but it infuriates me how the same schools seem to get away with it year after year. Are the GPS executive not brave enough to stand up to the guilty schools?

The usual cries of "where is your evidence" or "everyone else does it" are the standard responses. The facts are that if you dig hard enough (well not that hard at all actually!) there is evidence of it, that not every school does do it and that it is consistently the same three schools i.e. NOT Shore, Joeys, Riverview or Grammar. The three remaining GPS schools shamelessly get away with it without penalty every year.

One school in particular has started doing it earlier (U15s age group) as well in the hope that not as many people will notice. The playing field is far from even at present and it is going to need a very talented year group to win against one of these "intake assisted" sides if the trend continues over the next few years.

Sad what some headmasters will allow or turn a blind eye to in the pursuit of glory...

It will be interesting to see if any of the non-GPS players in the NSW 16s or Sydney sides mysteriously decide to change their schools for next year following the U16s Championships in the coming holidays.

 

[Lee Grant]

Let's keep the angst in this one thread as a safety valve and not infect other threads as most sentient posters realise has happened in other forums.

When writing in the other threads don't sneak in any allusions to scholarships as part of the post as the whole post will be nuked.

I've done it myself; so I know how hard it is to separate the issues.

We realise that some posters will not like this procedure. We understand them. They should also understand what their best option is if they want to post under different rules.

 

[Scarfman]

Northern Son, that upprcut didn't knock you out for long. More like a featherduster.

No way do G&GR want to stifle debate on the GPS scholarships issue. We think it's worth exploring. You might be surprised that what happens on these forums sometimes produces real world effects.

HOWEVER, whingeing and innuendo only cloud the issue. Northern, your evidence should be tabled, but it has more power when you don't attach it to a whinge. Put the facts out there, and just as importantly, allow them to be debated in a good spirit. Along the way, we might all learn something that overturns one of our assumptions about how things work.

OK?

 

[Thin Thighs]

Rugby Scholarships is not limited to only GPS schools.

Similar observations and discussion points relate to ISA schools and CAS as well.

What about the selective Sports High Schools? Are the kids on the TSP for Rugby at those schools not on Scholarships?

I think all the whinging about sporting scholarships is about jealousy.

Good on the kids who are good enough to convince a school or other group of benefactors that their skills and potential warrant an investment.

Where are we going to get our next tranche of Wallabies from if the current batch of teenagers showing some potential are not exposed to the best development opportunities?

 

[barbarian]

I think all the whinging about sporting scholarships is about jealousy.

Good on the kids who are good enough to convince a school or other group of benefactors that their skills and potential warrant an investment.

Where are we going to get our next tranche of Wallabies from if the current batch of teenagers showing some potential are not exposed to the best development opportunities?

No its not about jealousy, not within the confines of the GPS anyway. Its about tradition, and what the schools themselves stand for. The arguments have been well articulated to this point, so there is no need to repeat them, but jealousy is not a big issue when discussing scholarships in the GPS.

 

[mrbojangles]

Why can't schools give out sporting scholarships?

The concept is giving the students an opportunity they may not have had otherwise due to their special abilities, in this case Rugby skills.
Schools regularly give out academic scholarships due to their intelligence to receive the opportunity to reap the rewards of the resources available, why not in the sense of rugby and schools such as Kings and St Josephs resources in that area?
These private schools are more than just an academic arena, and this is what makes them so appealing to parents, so why restrict them to academic opportunities?

You can't say that just because a student has been at the school since yr 7, he will play harder for the school than one you began in year 10 on a scholarship. You are going to play with the same vigor and will to win either way, because they are kids playing rugby, and they simply want to win and succeed.

Its been commented as unfair upon students who have been at the school for earlier years, but is this not what it is like within life? Within the workforce you will have people coming in for a job, and it is not 'unfair' that someone from outside the entity received the position because they are better qualified and generally more talented. I'm sure if you ask these students they will agree that the incoming players are simply just better at that point of time.

I think this debate will continue no matter what, just due to the number of peoples personal interests it effects.

 

[I like to watch]

All good points, A lot of schools do give out Rugby scholarships.
The issue is that each of the Schools that are doing it,are in contravention to their agreements with their School associations where it is expressly stated that this should not happen.
Can't see Schools that do not give sporting scholarships agreeing to open the floodgates for their competitors. This would just ensure that they would bever be competitive again, unless they followed the trend.
Can't see who gets hurt, except for the fact that Cheating schools are rewarded by this behaviour.
Not really a good life lesson for the students who go to these Schools

 

[Rugbygirl]

Keep going Northernson. I whole heartedly support your honesty. You may well have as you say "rattled a few cages" but it infuriates me how the same schools seem to get away with it year after year. Are the GPS executive not brave enough to stand up to the guilty schools?

The usual cries of "where is your evidence" or "everyone else does it" are the standard responses. The facts are that if you dig hard enough (well not that hard at all actually!) there is evidence of it, that not every school does do it and that it is consistently the same three schools i.e. NOT Shore, Joeys, Riverview or Grammar. The three remaining GPS schools shamelessly get away with it without penalty every year.

One school in particular has started doing it earlier (U15s age group) as well in the hope that not as many people will notice. The playing field is far from even at present and it is going to need a very talented year group to win against one of these "intake assisted" sides if the trend continues over the next few years.

Sad what some headmasters will allow or turn a blind eye to in the pursuit of glory...

It will be interesting to see if any of the non-GPS players in the NSW 16s or Sydney sides mysteriously decide to change their schools for next year following the U16s Championships in the coming holidays.

If you deal in fact rather than rumour you wont make a fool yourself. The particular school you are referring to had a "one off" low intake year in year 7. The school decided to bring an entire stream (ie 25 boys) into the school to bring the numbers up. I think 2 or 3 of the boys were A grade rugby players which is about what you'd expect from that intake.

The more I read this thread the more ridiculous it becomes. Judging by what is classsed as "importing" by contributors, the only way for a school to avoid suspicion is to make sure they only have an intake in Kindergarten or Year 7. All ou have to do is ask your school's Director of Rugby one simple question: "would you offer a scholarship to a 14 year old ??" I can answer that for you now - it will be a unanimous no !!