Shute Shield 2013

[BellyTwoBlues]

I agree with ya on that. Penrith still has a lot of work to do as always, as does Gordon who have been struggling the last couple of years. Eastwood will be strong again in 2013. I heard down the grapevine that Penrith are recruiting hard overseas as well as trying to gain Some Waratahs players which I dnt think would ever happen. A bulk of penrith forward pack have left and theyre trying to get S.Tau (West Harvour), I.Pine (West Harbour), T.Pearce (West Harbour) S.Cummins (Eastwood), R.Maa (Parramatta) M.Latukefu (Parramatta) D.Fakafanua (Parramatta) Transfers will be interesting to see nxt yr

our blokes aren't going anywhere and neither is Cummins.

that's just Teki making phone calls which he's entitled to do of course. But it's not bearing any fruit.
They'll end up with a shit load of recent arrivals from the islands and no international clearances

 

[rugbyisfun]

BellyTwoBlues, there is so much whinging in rugbydom. With so much negativity around, I am always on the look out for ways to recognise positive contributions. I am pleased with what is being reported with what you are doing out in the deep Inner West.

If only every club doesn't have a GM (backed up with passionate and motivated volunteers) such as you, then things would be good in rugbydom.

I am not a Two Blues Supporter, but I recognise that healthy numbers and competitive clubs in the West is good for the game everywhere.

Keep up the good work.

As much as I do not like to admit it too much, the Hobbits are also doing some impressive things. The more established clubs would do well to follow your leads.

Might not be any GM's left. I hear Easts have 'released' long time serving and well respected GM, Kerry Brady. Randwick have made their GM redundant as well...

 

[Pete King]

I'm tipping Folau to go to Souths, the biggest factor being his friendship with the Timani brothers. I too would have love to seen him with the Two Blues or Penrith, the latter sadly was never going to happen.

 

[Tah and feathered]

My understanding of the funding given too clubs is to cover the costs or go a long way to covering the costs of a full time coach or GM
Not to go into general club revenue
Does Easts or Randwick or Warringah have a full time employee in a senior role?

 

[Tah and feathered]

I am hearing Filou is going to Uni
If so the Waratahs should hang there heads in Shame
He should have joined Penrith or Parramatta

 

[In the know I think.]

I see club rugby as a primary development structure for young and ambitious players. From there we need to find a higher level of competition for the top line talent.

Try Super 15 why are well looking for something else we don't need. The comp exists already.

 

[the coach]

My understanding of the funding given too clubs is to cover the costs or go a long way to covering the costs of a full time coach or GM
Not to go into general club revenue
Does Easts or Randwick or Warringah have a full time employee in a senior role?

The Randwick announcement (which has strangely disappeared from the website) quoted the reduction in funding from the ARU as a contributing factor in the decision.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

The Randwick announcement (which has strangely disappeared from the website) quoted the reduction in funding from the ARU as a contributing factor in the decision.

I'm betting that was written by Poido.................

 

[It is what it is]

Apart from Sydney Uni with 3 full time coaches in their club, does any other Shute Shield Club have a 100% full time coach on their books?

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

Apart from Sydney Uni with 3 full time coaches in their club, does any other Shute Shield Club have a 100% full time coach on their books?

Only 3? i suspect that might need clarifying.

we have a fulltime coach.

 

[the coach]

I'm betting that was written by Poido.......

It was "signed" by Poido and Bob Dwyer.
Dwyer was quoted as being the president of the club....not sure what's happened to Anthony Bell (the accountant to the stars!).
What's your point?

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Only 3? i suspect that might need clarifying.

we have a fulltime coach.

Scotty Fava at Norths is full time, and so too is Glen Christini I believe.

Not surprisingly, what clubs are trending up?

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Try Super 15 why are well looking for something else we don't need. The comp exists already.

I really would love to agree with you TH, but if we examine other sports, very few have evolved without a national bridge between an international provincial comp and a city-based district comp.

Netball, for example, has instigated a national league to sit under its trans tasman championship. They believe that it is too much of a leap to ANZ championship from State League.

AFL is talking about bringing back reserves, as the VFL has proven too much of a leap. So too is NRL. The Toyota Cup has been established to bridge the gap between NSW/QLD Cup and the NRL.

In short, the next level of players, who are just short of Super level need to be competing against each other in the one consolidated competition.

That could mean the Shute Shield is expanded to include interstate teams and rationalised, or even current sides may be encouraged to form allegiences with Super sides as feeder teams.

Neither these options are palatable for current Shute Shield teams.

And yes, I have no idea where the money is going to come from to build a national comp.

However, I think we need to understand that the Shute Shield in its current form, with its current teams is not the best possible competition in terms of serving the Super franchises.

There is no evidence to suggest that by keeping the pool of emerging talent in 3 or more separate competitions (as happens now) is the best way of developing that talent. Moreover, concentrating that talent within each comp into half the teams is even worse.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Shute Shield. I miss not being involved, as it has given me a great deal of joy for decades. Nor am I having a shot at any club- the haves- or the have- nots.

I just think we need to work out what it is supposed to do. If it is to feed the Super franchises with talent, all the talent should play in the one comp.

Look forward to some healthy, well reasoned discussion.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

We need as much of our best up and coming or developing playing consistently against one another. If you look at our just at our SANZAR partner and even Argentina who have club and provincial set ups it is a proven method in developing talent to move further on to Super Rugby. Not sure how it could be done, one thought would be to look to transform the three main competitions into one with the strongest clubs from each but that would hurt the other clubs

 

[the coach]

I was working in NZ for 6 months earlier this year and had some interesting discussions over there about the third tier concept. As we all know, rugby is by far the most popular winter football code in NZ and even allowing for the growth of soccer in South Africa it's also the most popular winter code there as well. So they have effective, self-sustaining third tier competitions which are televised and get a lot of support from the media in general. In Australia, rugby is very much the 3rd or 4th choice after league, AFL and possibly soccer so the money and crowd support is always going to be a problem. I believe we need to assume that the existing club competitions in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra are going to be the third tier for the forseeable future and work at making them more attractive and effective. The establishment of some other competition is just a pipe dream unless some entrepreneur with very deep pockets comes along who is prepared to finance it.

 

[marlin]

Scotty Fava at Norths is full time, and so too is Glen Christini I believe.

Not surprisingly, what clubs are trending up?

 

[marlin]

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I was working in NZ for 6 months earlier this year and had some interesting discussions over there about the third tier concept. As we all know, rugby is by far the most popular winter football code in NZ and even allowing for the growth of soccer in South Africa it's also the most popular winter code there as well. So they have effective, self-sustaining third tier competitions which are televised and get a lot of support from the media in general. In Australia, rugby is very much the 3rd or 4th choice after league, AFL and possibly soccer so the money and crowd support is always going to be a problem. I believe we need to assume that the existing club competitions in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra are going to be the third tier for the forseeable future and work at making them more attractive and effective. The establishment of some other competition is just a pipe dream unless some entrepreneur with very deep pockets comes along who is prepared to finance it.

I agree. In terms of being able to develop a new concept (it's the preferred route but being realistic) I think unless as you say, it is privately funded it simply is a pipe dream. However, and I'd like to link this in with the discussion regarding the National Academies on the general Rugby thread, with the $600,000 used for the two set ups and the franchises now looking to bypass it anyway with the Colleges, Wider Training Group or what have you. Perhaps those funds could be used to fund representative squads from Mel and Perth in the Shute Shield. Similar to what is done in League and the NSW Cup. If a Canberran squad were interested then they would certainly be welcome.

This way, at least most of the next level talent in concentrated in the one competition, it certainly wouldn't be perfect and may be unpopular with some but it could the closet thing to the much needed set up we need.

 

[In the know I think.]

I really would love to agree with you TH, but if we examine other sports, very few have evolved without a national bridge between an international provincial comp and a city-based district comp.

Netball, for example, has instigated a national league to sit under its trans tasman championship. They believe that it is too much of a leap to ANZ championship from State League.

AFL is talking about bringing back reserves, as the VFL has proven too much of a leap. So too is NRL. The Toyota Cup has been established to bridge the gap between NSW/QLD Cup and the NRL.

In short, the next level of players, who are just short of Super level need to be competing against each other in the one consolidated competition.

That could mean the Shute Shield is expanded to include interstate teams and rationalised, or even current sides may be encouraged to form allegiences with Super sides as feeder teams.

Neither these options are palatable for current Shute Shield teams.

And yes, I have no idea where the money is going to come from to build a national comp.

However, I think we need to understand that the Shute Shield in its current form, with its current teams is not the best possible competition in terms of serving the Super franchises.

There is no evidence to suggest that by keeping the pool of emerging talent in 3 or more separate competitions (as happens now) is the best way of developing that talent. Moreover, concentrating that talent within each comp into half the teams is even worse.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Shute Shield. I miss not being involved, as it has given me a great deal of joy for decades. Nor am I having a shot at any club- the haves- or the have- nots.

I just think we need to work out what it is supposed to do. If it is to feed the Super franchises with talent, all the talent should play in the one comp.

Look forward to some healthy, well reasoned discussion.

All valid Coxy but aren't we comparing Princes to Paupers.
I would not dream of taking you on when it comes to Netball but isn't still the highest team participant sport in the country? Doesn't it have more money than god bleeding parents dry since time in memorial.

AFL - again rich and no international play to support.

NRL - how much were the TV rights again?

The answer is abolish the Academies send them back to club football, filter those coaches, structure and $s back to the clubs. Then over time, and I'm thinking years, we may be able afford to intro a national comp if it is needed. Remember we won 2 world cups on the club structure NZ still had the ITM and SA the Curry Cup back then.

Short term and cost sensible option now is to play a short comp post club comps with either the Grand Finalists of the Shute Shield and Premier Rugby + a Combined States team or 2 rep sides from each Stute Shield and Premier Rugby + Combined States - 5 teams over in a month done and dusted.

We have to understand what capacity the Australian Sporting $ has and build with in our means.

The ARC had some great games but failed in better economic times.
What is going to be different?

 

[en_force_er]

Short term and cost sensible option now is to play a short comp post club comps with either the Grand Finalists of the Shute Shield and Premier Rugby + a Combined States team or 2 rep sides from each Stute Shield and Premier Rugby + Combined States - 5 teams over in a month done and dusted.

I actually spitball this kind of of idea with my mate all the time (but obviously not including a "combined states" team because with adults that's infeasible).

The question is, do we need to expose players to Super Rugby scouts or do we need to develop players? A short tournament with 3-5 games would do plenty to expose and test our up and coming talent for recruitment reasons but I don't think I'd do much for personal development that the academy system of yesteryear couldn't do.

I guess one has to ask, do we want a 3rd tier for entertainment, development, or recruitment? All good reasons and all would factor into any plan, but we still need to decide which we deem more important than others.