The ranting at Deans/ARU/O'Neill/Players thread

[Jiggles]

Watching the game for a third time, I genuinely believe that the comedy of errors that unfolded, could’ve been nipped in the but from the June tests, and that Deans needs to take a fair amount of blame for this. I also genuinely believe that these errors, which lead to the pathetic display on Saturday, largely have to do with the tight 5. Deans shouldn’t be held to account for the fitness of players, but he should be held to account for selecting those players who are not fit.

If the form and fit tight 5 was selected from June onwards yes they would’ve been more inexperienced than what we saw but they would’ve built combinations leading into the first Bledisloe test. Secondly it would of a sent a clear message to the incumbents (who are good players) of Robinson, Kepu, Simmons, Polota-Nau, and others like Timani. The message would’ve been something like this:

“We do not except laziness and unsatisfactory levels of fitness when wearing this jumper. The Wallaby jersey is earned each and every year, and you do not have a mortgage on it. Go away and get fit and prove that you are good enough to play for this team”

The same can be said of other players in the backline not up to it (i.e. Beale and Mitchell on the bench), but I think it is the most applicable to the tight 5. An in form and fit tight 5 would’ve got the job done last weekend against New Zealand who were pretty bad by there lofty standards.

 

[I like to watch]

come on, Beale does not get picked before that game, there would have been a riot. yep he played shit but that's hindsight.
He was an automatic selection, in everyone's opinion.

 

[Karl]

It's amazing that players at this level are so unfocused on their own fitness.

Alcohol is a big issue. Even moderate "social" consumption is unacceptable for an Elite athlete. Period. It's a fat steroid basically (the alcohol in the alcohol not the sugar/carbs in it) and it destroys lean muscle better than chemotherapy, even in moderate consumption. It totally wrecks your body composition in terms of percentage of lean muscle to fat and therefore destroys strength and endurance. Its a fucking toxin and your body treats it as such. Young, genetically gifted players with enormous training loads will still perform better than the average bear but they are the fattest, weakest version of them they can be. Ask Michael Phelps I'd he has even ONE drink when he is in competition or preparing.

They just aren't fucking serious about their performance, their game, their team or the honor of representing Australia when they screw around like they do and get on the piss during the season, Super Rugby or Representative. And we all facilitate it with apologist softcock boys will be boys they need to blow off some steam etc codswallop. Do some yoga, have a surf, jump out of a plane, you don't need alcohol to relax or have fun. YOU chose this road and this career and the fame and riches that go with it. You make the sacrifice. Get on the piss all you like when you're 35 and "retired". Once you hit a certain level in your sport, grow the fuck up and take it seriously.

 

[Schadenfreude]

It's amazing that players at this level are so unfocused on their own fitness.

Alcohol is a big issue. Even moderate "social" consumption is unacceptable for an Elite athlete. Period. It's a fat steroid basically (the alcohol in the alcohol not the sugar/carbs in it) and it destroys lean muscle better than chemotherapy, even in moderate consumption. It totally wrecks your body composition in terms of percentage of lean muscle to fat and therefore destroys strength and endurance. Its a fucking toxin and your body treats it as such. Young, genetically gifted players with enormous training loads will still perform better than the average bear but they are the fattest, weakest version of them they can be. Ask Michael Phelps I'd he has even ONE drink when he is in competition or preparing.

They just aren't fucking serious about their performance, their game, their team or the honor of representing Australia when they screw around like they do and get on the piss during the season, Super Rugby or Representative. And we all facilitate it with apologist softcock boys will be boys they need to blow off some steam etc codswallop. Do some yoga, have a surf, jump out of a plane, you don't need alcohol to relax or have fun. YOU chose this road and this career and the fame and riches that go with it. You make the sacrifice. Get on the piss all you like when you're 35 and "retired". Once you hit a certain level in your sport, grow the fuck up and take it seriously.

Clubs should ban it.

 

[Ruggo]

Have been patient with Robbie but just pissed off now.

 

[Sully]

I don't believe Beale dropped that pass from Genia (for example) because of his basic skills. I believe he dropped it because he wasn't focussed on catching it, because he is not as fit as he could be, unless you mean piss-fit, and because of the pressure of the situation and that the ABs put him under.

At this level Deans and his crew should be working on all three to get execution from them - inoculating them against pressure, getting them focussed on the simple things and either making sure their fit or picking someone else who is.

I'm not going to blame him for one-offs, and the ABs have a big hand in it. But when they come out and give a display like that first half, and allow the ABs to phone in a second half, no kudos from me to the coach.

At this level basic skills, fitness and pressure shouldn't have to be coached. It should already be there. A few lineout calls and some set moves and away you go. If you're still learning those things in the national side you shouldn't be in the national side.

 

[It is what it is]

At this level basic skills, fitness and pressure shouldn't have to be coached. It should already be there. A few lineout calls and some set moves and away you go. If you're still learning those things in the national side you shouldn't be in the national side.

The ability to execute them all under pressure consistently is the challenge for the players and coach.
It's the difference between sinking a 2 foot putt while practising by yourself and sinking that same 2 foot putt in front of a large crowd for a large sum of money in a major.
Some guys never handle it, others thrive, while most are in between.
I just don't see confidence and composure in the eyes of our players and coaching staff, I see anxiety, stage fright and sometimes a little fear.
We need to sort out who is capable of handling pressure asap.

 

[waratahjesus]

An in form and fit tight 5 would’ve got the job done last weekend against New Zealand who were pretty bad by there lofty standards.[/FONT][/FONT]

This is so wrong. Out of the tight five

tPN/MOore - 50/50 call, doesn't matter who starts both are of standard.
Robinson - form slump, but other than slipper coming in would still be on the bench with a massive gap til next in line.
Kepu - belongs out there, his fitness hasn't been an issue for the Tahs, has had a fantastic season and shouldn't be lumped in with others.
Sharpe - belongs
Timani - debatable selection sure, delivered his highest work rate to date though. So his involvment was improved, does deans get credit for this?
Simmons - made zero Impact only playing 40 minutes

WIth the injuries, there is no one outside this group that belongs within this group (locks debatable but none have experience to back up potential) and definitely none that would have seen the job done.

 

[vidiot]

Simmons - made zero Impact only playing 40 minutes

But he fit that 40 minutes into 8, which is pretty impressive.

 

[Slim 293]

This is so wrong. Out of the tight five

tPN/MOore - 50/50 call, doesn't matter who starts both are of standard.

Nah, Moore is clearly better the better player and has been for some time.........

 

[Hawko]

Exactly.

There needs to be far more player responsibility when they play terribly.

Everyone seems perfectly happy to laud their favourite players when they play well, but when they play badly it is always Robbie Deans' fault.

Seemingly certain players are almost untouchable for criticism amongst most forum members. Everything can just be explained away as someone else's fault.

Of course for some players, other people's mistakes are actually somehow their responsibility.

Of the fifteen that started, only Sharpe, Genia and Ioane were as good as their opposites. Every other player we started was beaten by his opposite and some of the NZ players did not play well. That is just too many bad players for it to be a player performance issue.

By all means drop players from the squad after the Eden Park test, it would be a salutary lesson for someone like Beale who is just not focussed if he had to go back to grade and get fit. And not just Beale either. Robinson is another high profile world beater whose performance has been awful. But the first neck on the block has to be the head coach. He is in charge of the shambles and he refuses to take responsibility.

 

[waratahjesus]

Nah, Moore is clearly better the better player and has been for some time...

Not really, his year wasn't outstanding for the brumbies as previous years were. I have no probem with him starting as I said, but he isn't at the eight of his powers anymore. Two years ago I would be saying Moore Moore Moore by a mile, but it is much closer now. Robbie is picking on combination as he said. If he picked Moore to start though I wouldn't argue at all. Both deserve time, it's just who offers more start and finish.

 

[I like to watch]

Of the fifteen that started, only Sharpe, Genia and Ioane were as good as their opposites. Every other player we started was beaten by his opposite and some of the NZ players did not play well. That is just too many bad players for it to be a player performance issue.

By all means drop players from the squad after the Eden Park test, it would be a salutary lesson for someone like Beale who is just not focussed if he had to go back to grade and get fit. And not just Beale either. Robinson is another high profile world beater whose performance has been awful. But the first neck on the block has to be the head coach. He is in charge of the shambles and he refuses to take responsibility.

This is really chicken/egg stuff isn't it?
Some believe the players are shite solely due to Deans. Some believe it doesn't matter who the coach is, cos the players are shite.
Not many think it's a bit of both,which is strange.

 

[Schadenfreude]

This is really chicken/egg stuff isn't it?
Some believe the players are shite solely due to Deans. Some believe it doesn't matter who the coach is, cos the players are shite.
Not many think it's a bit of both,which is strange.

Sun Tzu has a read on this for you:

It's the general's responsibility to ensure his troops are trained, ready for battle, and understand his orders.

If the troops are prepared and they don't follow the orders, then it's the captain's fault.

 

[Jiggles]

This is so wrong. Out of the tight five

tPN/MOore - 50/50 call, doesn't matter who starts both are of standard.
Robinson - form slump, but other than slipper coming in would still be on the bench with a massive gap til next in line.
Kepu - belongs out there, his fitness hasn't been an issue for the Tahs, has had a fantastic season and shouldn't be lumped in with others.
Sharpe - belongs
Timani - debatable selection sure, delivered his highest work rate to date though. So his involvment was improved, does deans get credit for this?
Simmons - made zero Impact only playing 40 minutes

WIth the injuries, there is no one outside this group that belongs within this group (locks debatable but none have experience to back up potential) and definitely none that would have seen the job done.

Right. So looking like tellytubbies, the front row in particular, and walking with intermittent waddling is your idea of a fit tight 5. good to know.

 

[Ash]

Not really, his year wasn't outstanding for the brumbies as previous years were. I have no probem with him starting as I said, but he isn't at the eight of his powers anymore. Two years ago I would be saying Moore Moore Moore by a mile, but it is much closer now. Robbie is picking on combination as he said. If he picked Moore to start though I wouldn't argue at all. Both deserve time, it's just who offers more start and finish.

Moore's year may not have been as outstanding as previous years, but you're missing the other side of the equation.

Remind me how TPN went this year in SupeRugby? Bonus points for talking about his last 4 or 5 games in particular.

 

[HG]

Did he play that many in the year? Every time I watched he seemed to be sitting on the ground holding his head from a tackle gone wrong.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How would deans go with the all blacks squad?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[HG]

@ Inside Shoulder, from the penthouse to the shit house in 3 years

 

[Bullrush]

As Jiggles said earlier, Deans' biggest mistake so far was probably not getting some new blood in during the June Tests.

I can see the dilemma he's in though. I don't like giving coaches 2 year contracts with 4 years to go till the RWC. The reason is that they pick teams and make plans to just win for the next 2 years. They just want to keep their job. In Dean's case, he may have looked at the June Tests and thought, 'Better the devil you know.....'

If he had picked some of the new guys (Pyle/Neville/Shipperly etc) and they had lost the series to Wales, it would have been good for him at all. Not only have they failed but the 'incumbents' have now missed the chance to get more familiar with the Wallaby culture (I'm guessing he's trying to build one?!?), improve with international experience etc. I don't know.....I don't envy his job right now.

Despite what some people think, Australia doesn't have the cattle right now to match NZ....

Woodcock v Robinson - Woodcock
Mealamu v Moore - Moore in a tight one.
Franks v Kepu - Franks
Sharpe v Whitelock - Sharpe. Whitelock keeps improving though
Timani v Romano - Romano if I had to choose. Purely on
Pocock v McCaw - McCaw. Overall game is better than Pococks IMO.
Dennis v Messam - Messam
Higger v Read - Read...by a country mile
Genia v Smith - Genia. Not by much though. I stand by earlier comments this year that Genia hasn't done much really special with the Wallaby jersey on.
Barnes v Carter - Carter. Even on a quiet day, Carter.
Ioane v Jane - Digby. Not by much again tho.
SBW v Faainga - SBW.
Nonu v Horne - Nonu
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) v Gear - Gear. Was quiet on Saturday but surely you'd still take him at wing over AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) every day of the week.
Beale v Dagg - Dagg. Personal preference and bias. On his day, KB (Kurtley Beale) is untouchable. I still think something else is up with KB (Kurtley Beale) - he's not right.

Deans really needs 4 or 5 of these guys to start either having the game of their lives are just getting consistently better. Kepu, Timani, Dennis, Higgers, Horne, Faainga.....none of these guys have really established themselves as certain Tests level players. Would Timani beat out Whitelock, Romano, Rettalick, Donnelly and possibly Eaton out of AB contention? Would Kepu make the 22 in a Springbok side?

And after writing all of that, I think to myself, these guys still beat the 6 Nations Champs 3-nil (I don't care how it was done, can you imagine the 3N Champions going over there and losing 3 straight games to them?!?)

OK....I dunno what the fuck is wrong with them!!! LOL