The Wallabies Thread

[mst]

Is Ruan Smith Australian eligible?

If not, he surely isn't getting any closer by going to play in Japan as that would reset the residency qualification period.

Yes. Australian citizen so i am unaware of any impediment.

 

[Braveheart81]

Ah - your on to me! Exactly who is there especially at 10, or 12 or..

We all know that we have no depth but we don't want can't seem to do anything about it except rinse and repeat. These is the same conversions we had last year pre-RWC and they will continue until we want to change that.

IMHO we are at the what next stage, not the what we already know.

Do you really build depth by selecting players who aren't ready or in form ahead of players who have experience and are playing better?

Foley is 26 (about to turn 27) and has played 30 tests, Cooper is 28 and has played 58 tests. Leali'ifano is 28 (almost 29) and has played 19 tests.

It's not like these guys are at the end of their careers and there is a young guy in outstanding form who is being held back.

Kerevi is definitely a guy who we need to be giving more international experience to because he is young, his form absolutely warrants it and it looks like he could be our best option very soon.

There is no one you can say about that in the 10 jersey. We are selecting the right guys there.

Yes. Australian citizen so i am unaware of any impediment.

Ahh, that's cool. I thought Ruan Smith did really well this year. His ball running in particular really improved.

 

[Highlander35]

Got it. Reece Hodge must play 12. It's the only logical conclusoon

 

[mst]

It's not like these guys are at the end of their careers and there is a young guy in outstanding form who is being held back.

Maybe that is the issue. Should we not be grabbing the talent and building through mentoring, exposure and opportunity rather than waiting for them to be in outstanding form?

Isn't part of the issue that the skill development is not being done early enough? There is also an argument that we need to take a break the mold of past ways and change it up.

I always find it interesting when you compare apples that the Kiwi veteran 10 is Cruden at 27. All the rest are under 25 and have had a few years at Super Rugby level already.

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe that is the issue. Should we not be grabbing the talent and building through mentoring, exposure and opportunity rather than waiting for them to be in outstanding form?

Isn't part of the issue that the skill development is not being done early enough? There is also an argument that we need to take a break the mold of past ways and change it up.

I always find it interesting when you compare apples that the Kiwi veteran 10 is Cruden at 27. All the rest are under 25 and have had a few years at Super Rugby level already.

Who are you saying we should pick? Jack Debreczeni? It's not even clear he's going to be the Rebels starting 10 next year.

We need to wait until those players deserve to be selected otherwise we potentially go backwards because we give opportunity to players who aren't ready and might never be ready (because someone else pushes ahead of them before they ever get there) and then our best players miss out on opportunity.

Barrett and Sopoaga are both 25.

The All Blacks don't select the young guys unless they deserve to be there.

I just don't see who the young Australian players who are missing out that we'd benefit from selecting in the squad. Reece Hodge and Sam Kerevi are probably the two outstanding young backs who warrant selection this year and they are there.

Andrew Kellaway might join that group next year.

It's really hard to say that there is an option at 10 that should be picked now. Hopefully someone starts bashing on that door soon.

Jack Debreczeni isn't suddenly going to become a world class player because we select him for the Wallabies.

 

[Jagman]

Yes. Australian citizen so i am unaware of any impediment.

Citizenship is not considered by World Rugby. One place of birth of player, player's parents or grandparents. After that it's 3 years continual residency with no more than 3 months (at a time) external residency. I thought I read that Speight would not have had to restart the eligibility period had he not gone on an overseas holiday directly from NZ after the ITM cup.

I assume that by ignoring citizenship it stops governments from making immediate exceptions for elite sportsmen and keeps things under WR (World Rugby) control.

 

[mst]

Who are you saying we should pick? Jack Debreczeni? It's not even clear he's going to be the Rebels starting 10 next year.

We need to wait until those players deserve to be selected otherwise we potentially go backwards because we give opportunity to players who aren't ready and might never be ready (because someone else pushes ahead of them before they ever get there) and then our best players miss out on opportunity.

Barrett and Sopoaga are both 25.

The All Blacks don't select the young guys unless they deserve to be there.

I just don't see who the young Australian players who are missing out that we'd benefit from selecting in the squad. Reece Hodge and Sam Kerevi are probably the two outstanding young backs who warrant selection this year and they are there.

Andrew Kellaway might join that group next year.

It's really hard to say that there is an option at 10 that should be picked now. Hopefully someone starts bashing on that door soon.

Jack Debreczeni isn't suddenly going to become a world class player because we select him for the Wallabies.

This is the same rinse & repeat conversation form last year which highlights the point that we are on a merry-go-round. One year on and no change.

Barrett and Sopoaga are both 25. - correct; and have already been Super Rugby 10's for awhile and blooded in the AB system. It's well reported that Barrett has been told by the AB's that he need to improve his passing if he wants to be picked.

I was reading recently about the recognisable changes in D.McKenzie game since the AB coaches had him in June.

We wait for the players; they seek them out, tell them where the bar is set and what they need to do to get their, and then give them a chance to prove if they are good enough. Even if is a small cameo like Sopaga. If they cant keep developing they move them on as there is always another player in waiting and finite resources and time.

 

[mst]

Citizenship is not considered by World Rugby. One place of birth of player, player's parents or grandparents. After that it's 3 years continual residency with no more than 3 months (at a time) external residency. I thought I read that Speight would not have had to restart the eligibility period had he not gone on an overseas holiday directly from NZ after the ITM cup.

I assume that by ignoring citizenship it stops governments from making immediate exceptions for elite sportsmen and keeps things under WR (World Rugby) control.

The Smith twins deliberately did what they needed to do to make themselves Wallabies eligible. The Citizenship was one piece. The residence issue (3yrs) for Ruan was resolved a few years ago (played for the Force in 2012 then moved to the Brumbies).

 

[Braveheart81]

This is the same rinse & repeat conversation form last year which highlights the point that we are on a merry-go-round. One year on and no change.

Barrett and Sopoaga are both 25. - correct; and have already been Super Rugby 10's for awhile and blooded in the AB system. It's well reported that Barrett has been told by the AB's that he need to improve his passing if he wants to be picked.

I was reading recently about the recognisable changes in D.McKenzie game since the AB coaches had him in June.

We wait for the players; they seek them out, tell them where the bar is set and what they need to do to get their, and then give them a chance to prove if they are good enough. Even if is a small cameo like Sopaga. If they cant keep developing they move them on as there is always another player in waiting and finite resources and time.

One year on and the same players are still the best players and no one else has thrust themselves forward as a genuine option at 10. That isn't surprising.

Meanwhile we've had plenty of new players in the Wallaby squad this year at 2 (Ready), 3 (Robertson), 4/5 (Arnold/Coleman), 8 (Timani), 9 (Frisby, Powell), 12 (Hodge), 13 (Kerevi), 14 (DHP).

Out of those, five new players have been capped this year in Arnold, Coleman, Frisby, Kerevi and DHP. Robertson, Timani and Hodge must be a shot at getting capped during the Rugby Championship.

It is simply not correct that we are not providing opportunities to players who are showing that they are ready to make the next step up through Super Rugby form. You can't take one position and say that nothing has changed overall because the same players that made the squad last year are there again.

Which players have the All Blacks ever added to their squad who weren't playing outstanding rugby at Super Rugby level? Like Milner-Skudder last year, Damian McKenzie has been outstanding at Super Rugby level and his selection was justified in full. He wasn't picked just because he showed some promise and they were thinking about the future.

 

[upthereds#!]

I reckon timani and hodge might have to wait till EOYT. I doubt they will use the Euro/japanese players for that one except as local injury replacements. So no To'omua, Gits, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), mitchell, or poey

 

[Bairdy]

With the inclusion of Alalalatoa, Robertson alongside our mainstays, I take it Ala'alatoa is being looked as a tighthead, given three of the props are recognisable looseheads. Hope he gets a run there.

Ruan Smith is next in line in the pecking order for Australian tightheads you'd have to assume. I'd have him there over Faulkner in any case.

 

[Viking]

Yes Ruan Smith is surely on the fringes and close to selection.

 

[Highlander35]

Toby playing Tighthead a few times for the Rebels this season was surely a directive from above as well.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Maybe that is the issue. Should we not be grabbing the talent and building through mentoring, exposure and opportunity rather than waiting for them to be in outstanding form?

Isn't part of the issue that the skill development is not being done early enough? There is also an argument that we need to take a break the mold of past ways and change it up.

I always find it interesting when you compare apples that the Kiwi veteran 10 is Cruden at 27. All the rest are under 25 and have had a few years at Super Rugby level already.

The argument's there, but we are on 4 losses in a row, with a couple of Bled games up front, then probably(?) Playing the Boks to avoid a pro-era losing streak.

Cheika can't afford to do too much experimentation at the moment.

 

[Viking]

The argument's there, but we are on 4 losses in a row, with a couple of Bled games up front, then probably(?) Playing the Boks to avoid a pro-era losing streak.

Cheika can't afford to do too much experimentation at the moment.

Maybe he can't afford not to. Depends which way you look at it.

 

[mst]

The argument's there, but we are on 4 losses in a row, with a couple of Bled games up front, then probably(?) Playing the Boks to avoid a pro-era losing streak.

Cheika can't afford to do too much experimentation at the moment.

So when does he then?

We keep wanting to skip from crawl to run and wonder why we keep falling flat on our face so we will need to pull back at some point.

 

[Strewthcobber]

So when does he then?

There's 2 answers there

Firstly, on the end of year tour when he's not staring down the wrong end of the record books and barely anyone in Australia is watching.

But secondly, when he has an experiment that isn't significantly worse than the older guys. There isn't anyone worth putting in at the moment.

 

[mst]

History can be cruel and if we lose the RC and Bledisloe will history show by the EOYT when we stated to find a fix it was too little to late? What about the already despondent supporters who had had enough after the Poms clean sweep and Super Rugby season, will they hang in there or will the damage be done?

Personally, I would swallow a flogging blooding a new team finding a new direction than a rinse & repeat loss and doing a renovation on something we negated inflicting more damage ourselves.

 

[barbarian]

So who are you picking MST? Put your money where your mouth is and give us some names. Because that's the big thing missing from your argument. Who are these mythical gun youngsters you're talking about?

Your argument rests on the fallacy that there is a world beating Wallaby XV out there, they just need time/experience.

The notion that a sub-par young player + 25 tests = a champion is completely flawed, and it's essentially what you're arguing.

The team we have now, give or take a few players, is our best side. We are bringing good youngsters like Hodge and Robertson into the fold, but throwing them into the Wallabies for a Bledisloe would do way more harm than good.

And why do we need a 'new direction'? We made the RWC Final just a few months ago. Sure the England losses were tough but what you suggest (rubbing the whole team out and starting from scratch) is completely ridiculous.
.

 

[Pfitzy]

Who are these mythical gun youngsters you're talking about?
.
The notion that a sub-par young player + 25 tests = a champion is completely flawed, and it's essentially what you're arguing.

.

Queensland Reds selection policy for the last three years innit?