MACCA
Ron Walden (29)
Any Updates on the Ins & Outs for the Tahs?
Waratahs 2017
- Thread starter Lindommer
- Start date
- Status
Any Updates on the Ins & Outs for the Tahs?
From the off contract and unknown lists:
Robinson - injury-forced retirement.
Ryan - seems to be coming to grips with the LH side, worth keeping.
Roach - re-signed recently.
Mumm - don't think Dean came back from England for only one season, suspect he's down for at least another year.
Guildford - released, returning to NZ.
Tilse - surely it's time to develop other props, Sandell and Orr for starters.
TPN - the end's always lurking for Taf, wouldn't be surprised if he found a Japanese stint too tempting to ignore.
Lousi - pull yer finger out son or bugger off.
Palu - retiring after next week.
Hanigan - MUST KEEP!
Hegarty/Horwitz - keep one only, Horwitz seems to've got the jump here but he must keep improving or else.
Carraro - retiring after next week.
Robertson - MUST KEEP!
Clunies-Ross - off to France, understandable with the queue of wingers at the Tahs. Shame he didn't back himself.
Gordon/Toleafoa/McCauley/Deegan/Jones - dunno much about this lot, if McCauley's any good we desperately need locks.
Orr - keep him on the books.
The Tahs need another scrummie and a coupla second-rowers, the rest of the squad looks OK. If there are any unpolished diamonds in the extended and supplementary squads I sincerely hope they don't slip through our fingers a la George Smith.
Robinson - injury-forced retirement.
Ryan - seems to be coming to grips with the LH side, worth keeping.
Roach - re-signed recently.
Mumm - don't think Dean came back from England for only one season, suspect he's down for at least another year.
Guildford - released, returning to NZ.
Tilse - surely it's time to develop other props, Sandell and Orr for starters.
TPN - the end's always lurking for Taf, wouldn't be surprised if he found a Japanese stint too tempting to ignore.
Lousi - pull yer finger out son or bugger off.
Palu - retiring after next week.
Hanigan - MUST KEEP!
Hegarty/Horwitz - keep one only, Horwitz seems to've got the jump here but he must keep improving or else.
Carraro - retiring after next week.
Robertson - MUST KEEP!
Clunies-Ross - off to France, understandable with the queue of wingers at the Tahs. Shame he didn't back himself.
Gordon/Toleafoa/McCauley/Deegan/Jones - dunno much about this lot, if McCauley's any good we desperately need locks.
Orr - keep him on the books.
The Tahs need another scrummie and a coupla second-rowers, the rest of the squad looks OK. If there are any unpolished diamonds in the extended and supplementary squads I sincerely hope they don't slip through our fingers a la George Smith.
Paddy Ryan was re-signed until the end of 2018.
Cameron Orr is heading to the UK I believe.
Cam Clark has been signed for next year at least.
Cameron Orr is heading to the UK I believe.
Cam Clark has been signed for next year at least.
GunnerDownUnder
Jim Clark (26)
It will be interesting to see if he can get much game time there.
Hopefully he gets some experience and returns to the Tahs in a couple of years. I think he's going to be a really good player.
GunnerDownUnder
Jim Clark (26)
A lot of decent props at the club and he is not really getting mentioned as a squad player but hopefully gets a go in the Anglo-Welsh cup this year.
Both he and Harrison qualify for England so they could stay for a longer period if they have success.
Both he and Harrison qualify for England so they could stay for a longer period if they have success.
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
Is alphabet signed for next year?
I'm not particularly impressed with his performances and I'd be more than happy if he wasn't on the park.
I'm not particularly impressed with his performances and I'd be more than happy if he wasn't on the park.
Highlander35
Andrew Slack (58)
TQ is 100% signed with you guys because he'd otherwise still be at Glasgow as per the Terms of the release clause.
T
TOCC
Guest
Sam Lousi has signed with the Hurricanes for 2017
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
Time to get Lukhan Tui back!
T
TOCC
Guest
Reds have him signed until 2018
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
You'd think they have enough second rowers from NSW.
T
TOCC
Guest
Ben Matijow was on the market up until recently, he would have been a handy pickup for depth.
It will be interesting to see who the Tahs pick up in this area.
You'd have to think that Gibson is expecting Senio Toleafoa to play a role next season otherwise they'd have worked harder to retain Lousi.
Expect Skelton and Mumm to be the starting locks next year with Toleafoa on the bench and hopefully Ryan McCauley will be signed up and should progress to Super Rugby pretty quickly. At 206cm he is that pure lineout lock the Tahs really need. I could see him forming a strong partnership with Skelton in the future.
You'd have to think that Gibson is expecting Senio Toleafoa to play a role next season otherwise they'd have worked harder to retain Lousi.
Expect Skelton and Mumm to be the starting locks next year with Toleafoa on the bench and hopefully Ryan McCauley will be signed up and should progress to Super Rugby pretty quickly. At 206cm he is that pure lineout lock the Tahs really need. I could see him forming a strong partnership with Skelton in the future.
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
Didn't realise McCauley was so tall. He looked very athletic in the schoolboy tests last year but he's also only 106kg. He's going to have to put on another 7-8kgs. It's not very often that a second rower would go straight to the Tahs WTS first year out of school so lets hope he fulfills his potential.
A 19 year old shouldn't have any issues filling out his frame a bit more.
I didn't realise he was that tall until I looked it up either. His consistency at the Under 20 RWC was good. Strong in the lineout, good hands, decent carrying and a good workrate. Everything we need in a lock, particularly if the long term role is as a partner to Skelton.
Unless the Hurricanes have a software upgrade that makes him go harder, it's no big loss.
Looks like TPN and Mumm mightn't be around next year. Check here: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rug...s-plan-for-player-exodus-20160716-gq7435.html
gowaratahs
Sydney Middleton (9)
Okay, where to from here? Here's my view from a deserted Sri Lankan beach (except for 3 cows and a dog).
For numbers - and if 2016 is anything to go by, and the Pulveriser doesn't mix it up again - the squad will resemble 30 full contracts, 3 EPS, 5 development and 2 supplementary. As a reminder, EPS were Robertson, Sandell and Gordon, development were Toleafoa, McCauley, Deegan, Jones, and Clunies-Ross, and Orr and Perry were supplementary. Note also that Naiyaravoro came back late and Hilterbrand had a short-term contract as cover for hooker when TPN and Tolu were both injured. So let's have a look, position by position...
LHP & THP
We had 7 on the books and used 5 in 2016, especially due to Fatcat's unfortunate early demise. So with Fatcat and Orr gone, Kepu back and Robertson a signing priority the question is over Tilse - noting that if he leaves we'll be short on the loosehead side. Knock him you may, though I don't remember him doing much wrong this year - though LHP could otherwise be a spot for an international marquee signing. We're stuck with Lean Angus on the other side, and Sandell's re-signed on a promise to eat more meat so probably won't be ready in 2017.
Hooker
Latu and Roach are locked in, and it'll be either TPN or (apparently) Fitzpatrick as the third. I thought Fitzy was a junior exec last time he was with us - he always sat in the stand in a suit (unlucky bugger). Late breaking - if Lindommer's mail is right and TPN says sayonara, maybe Fitzy gets another crack at long term injury in 2017.
Locks
Denno and Lousy gone, Skelton and (we'd hope) Mumm to stay, with Toleafoa, Hanigan and McCauley currently unsigned. Those last 3 have an NRC to show us whom, if any are ready. If we rate Matt Philip, we'd want to pinch him pronto as he's been on a short-term deal with the Force who have lost both Mafi and Walton for next year. As far as I know the only super-experienced lock on the Aussie market is Ben Matwijow whose off to Taranaki for the NPC. I know there are calls for a genuine traditional lock, but they don't grow on trees - McCauley needs time. Late breaking - Dean Mumm, don't go anywhere just yet, we need another year!
Flankers
Hooper and Dempsey will do me any day of the week. I guess Hanigan and Mumm are the backups pending locking configuration, with Dempsey easily swapping sides if tragedy strikes. Wilkin has another year, though probably won't feature and Perry too looks like he's there for opposed sessions rather than being fitted for a matchday jersey. No recruitment needed here.
No. 8
I honestly didn't think Holloway dominated SS and NRC enough to own this spot, but his super efforts alone now warrant a long lease. So with Palu not staying on, here's my controversial "dream" backup to Jed for 2017... Taqele Naiyaravoro. Yes really, no I'm not joking - and here's why. Before kids I was an avid watcher of Currie Cup rugby, and in 2004 via FOXTEL and while actually in the republic in 2005/06 I saw the Bulls transform Pierre Spies from a speedy, athletic and damaging winger into arguably the form No.8 in the world - because he couldn't get a crack behind Habana and Ndungane. We've got an NRC to try it out, granted he wouldn't be a jumper like Cliffy though he's got speed, and a wicked offload. I'm proposing he'd start games on the wing, get 10 in the bin around the 30min mark to freshen him up for playing the last 15-20 at No.8 when Jed's had enough... Well, why not?
Scrumhalf
Phipps and Lucas signed, Gordon in box seat as backup though has NRC to prove he's next best.
Flyhalf
'Nards the man, though backup is concerning. Without KB (Kurtley Beale) to overplay his hand as backup 10, we've got to have a long hard think about the results from the Horwitz experiment. For mine, he's been bloody awful and can piss off back to the NRC to either dominate or be downgraded, or completely forgotten in 2017. Everytime he fucked up - and there's plenty of examples - his main concern was for... his hair - check the replays, it's been a joke all year at our place - I was doing my hair in the mirror one morning and my missus asked if I'd knocked on. Yep, I get he got a Catchpole but he didn't catch much this year - passes or ballrunners alike. Deegan also gets an NRC to show what he's learned this year, and Hegarty remains an option though was virtually an afterthought signing this year due Foley's stint in Japan. Note that QC (Quade Cooper) and Kyle Gone-backwards are on the market with the former a possibility as a non-tackling 12 and backup fly half (Horne shuffles in, Quade shuffles out - sound familiar?) and the latter rumored to be heading up the Hume to replace To'omua. We bought Mitchell and Barnes to the surprise of most, QC (Quade Cooper) next?
Centres
Folau gets 13, and if we don't sign QC (Quade Cooper) or Godwin it'll probably be Horne as we missed the boat on Hodge. Pending proving himself in the NRC, Stewart might be the backup as Carraro might finish up too. He always played above expectation as a replacement though mostly around par as a starter, except of course that Chiefs game.
Wing
Kellaway, Naiyaravoro, Robinson. I've never fancied the red terror at fullback in SS, and he's not dominating there in Super Rugby. He's a finisher, let Folau put him down the sideline - though obviously Horne owns a wing if we buy a decent 12. Let's see how Cam Clark goes before he gets a jersey, pity the Olympics timing will mean he misses NRC and his chance to show what he's got. Will speed machine HH follow him to the Tahs? I hope he learns to tackle first.
Fullback
I say give the (unsigned) Jones boy a go. I like a fullback with height (tick), speed (tick), a good boot (tick, tick) - as long as whoever picks him up in the NRC gives him a run at 15 to test him out in the air, I reckon he could have some future. Backup: Kellaway.
Summary
We've turned over Fatcat, Denno and KB (Kurtley Beale) with a '?' over TPN, and picked up Kepu so there's some cookies in the jar to lure one or two big signings. I see target recruitment areas being someone who can play 10/12/15, lock and LHP (in that order). No, I haven't mentioned Hayne... difficult to imagine how it'd be worth his while now he's made his senior Fiji debut at Twickers - he could be a marquee signing but would need serious 3rd-party $$ in lieu of the Wallaby top-up. If anyone can, the Tahs network can but I just don't see it - so maybe we focus on the other sevens reject to cover 10/12/15. We'd have to look o/s for a marquee LHP or possibly lock as Philip is the only available lock and Metcher is last man in an Aust Super squad unsigned at prop - though he's a tighthead and we're covered there.
Last word
I'd like to see us sign a marquee LHP, a full contract to Robertson at THP, bring on Toleafoa and McCauley as future locks (pending NRC form), experiment with TQ as a back-up No.8, sign up QC (Quade Cooper) (despite thinking he's a despicable human being - hell, we managed okay with Guildford), and bring on Jones at the back, again pending NRC form.
What do you think our priorities should be?
For numbers - and if 2016 is anything to go by, and the Pulveriser doesn't mix it up again - the squad will resemble 30 full contracts, 3 EPS, 5 development and 2 supplementary. As a reminder, EPS were Robertson, Sandell and Gordon, development were Toleafoa, McCauley, Deegan, Jones, and Clunies-Ross, and Orr and Perry were supplementary. Note also that Naiyaravoro came back late and Hilterbrand had a short-term contract as cover for hooker when TPN and Tolu were both injured. So let's have a look, position by position...
LHP & THP
We had 7 on the books and used 5 in 2016, especially due to Fatcat's unfortunate early demise. So with Fatcat and Orr gone, Kepu back and Robertson a signing priority the question is over Tilse - noting that if he leaves we'll be short on the loosehead side. Knock him you may, though I don't remember him doing much wrong this year - though LHP could otherwise be a spot for an international marquee signing. We're stuck with Lean Angus on the other side, and Sandell's re-signed on a promise to eat more meat so probably won't be ready in 2017.
Hooker
Latu and Roach are locked in, and it'll be either TPN or (apparently) Fitzpatrick as the third. I thought Fitzy was a junior exec last time he was with us - he always sat in the stand in a suit (unlucky bugger). Late breaking - if Lindommer's mail is right and TPN says sayonara, maybe Fitzy gets another crack at long term injury in 2017.
Locks
Denno and Lousy gone, Skelton and (we'd hope) Mumm to stay, with Toleafoa, Hanigan and McCauley currently unsigned. Those last 3 have an NRC to show us whom, if any are ready. If we rate Matt Philip, we'd want to pinch him pronto as he's been on a short-term deal with the Force who have lost both Mafi and Walton for next year. As far as I know the only super-experienced lock on the Aussie market is Ben Matwijow whose off to Taranaki for the NPC. I know there are calls for a genuine traditional lock, but they don't grow on trees - McCauley needs time. Late breaking - Dean Mumm, don't go anywhere just yet, we need another year!
Flankers
Hooper and Dempsey will do me any day of the week. I guess Hanigan and Mumm are the backups pending locking configuration, with Dempsey easily swapping sides if tragedy strikes. Wilkin has another year, though probably won't feature and Perry too looks like he's there for opposed sessions rather than being fitted for a matchday jersey. No recruitment needed here.
No. 8
I honestly didn't think Holloway dominated SS and NRC enough to own this spot, but his super efforts alone now warrant a long lease. So with Palu not staying on, here's my controversial "dream" backup to Jed for 2017... Taqele Naiyaravoro. Yes really, no I'm not joking - and here's why. Before kids I was an avid watcher of Currie Cup rugby, and in 2004 via FOXTEL and while actually in the republic in 2005/06 I saw the Bulls transform Pierre Spies from a speedy, athletic and damaging winger into arguably the form No.8 in the world - because he couldn't get a crack behind Habana and Ndungane. We've got an NRC to try it out, granted he wouldn't be a jumper like Cliffy though he's got speed, and a wicked offload. I'm proposing he'd start games on the wing, get 10 in the bin around the 30min mark to freshen him up for playing the last 15-20 at No.8 when Jed's had enough... Well, why not?
Scrumhalf
Phipps and Lucas signed, Gordon in box seat as backup though has NRC to prove he's next best.
Flyhalf
'Nards the man, though backup is concerning. Without KB (Kurtley Beale) to overplay his hand as backup 10, we've got to have a long hard think about the results from the Horwitz experiment. For mine, he's been bloody awful and can piss off back to the NRC to either dominate or be downgraded, or completely forgotten in 2017. Everytime he fucked up - and there's plenty of examples - his main concern was for... his hair - check the replays, it's been a joke all year at our place - I was doing my hair in the mirror one morning and my missus asked if I'd knocked on. Yep, I get he got a Catchpole but he didn't catch much this year - passes or ballrunners alike. Deegan also gets an NRC to show what he's learned this year, and Hegarty remains an option though was virtually an afterthought signing this year due Foley's stint in Japan. Note that QC (Quade Cooper) and Kyle Gone-backwards are on the market with the former a possibility as a non-tackling 12 and backup fly half (Horne shuffles in, Quade shuffles out - sound familiar?) and the latter rumored to be heading up the Hume to replace To'omua. We bought Mitchell and Barnes to the surprise of most, QC (Quade Cooper) next?
Centres
Folau gets 13, and if we don't sign QC (Quade Cooper) or Godwin it'll probably be Horne as we missed the boat on Hodge. Pending proving himself in the NRC, Stewart might be the backup as Carraro might finish up too. He always played above expectation as a replacement though mostly around par as a starter, except of course that Chiefs game.
Wing
Kellaway, Naiyaravoro, Robinson. I've never fancied the red terror at fullback in SS, and he's not dominating there in Super Rugby. He's a finisher, let Folau put him down the sideline - though obviously Horne owns a wing if we buy a decent 12. Let's see how Cam Clark goes before he gets a jersey, pity the Olympics timing will mean he misses NRC and his chance to show what he's got. Will speed machine HH follow him to the Tahs? I hope he learns to tackle first.
Fullback
I say give the (unsigned) Jones boy a go. I like a fullback with height (tick), speed (tick), a good boot (tick, tick) - as long as whoever picks him up in the NRC gives him a run at 15 to test him out in the air, I reckon he could have some future. Backup: Kellaway.
Summary
We've turned over Fatcat, Denno and KB (Kurtley Beale) with a '?' over TPN, and picked up Kepu so there's some cookies in the jar to lure one or two big signings. I see target recruitment areas being someone who can play 10/12/15, lock and LHP (in that order). No, I haven't mentioned Hayne... difficult to imagine how it'd be worth his while now he's made his senior Fiji debut at Twickers - he could be a marquee signing but would need serious 3rd-party $$ in lieu of the Wallaby top-up. If anyone can, the Tahs network can but I just don't see it - so maybe we focus on the other sevens reject to cover 10/12/15. We'd have to look o/s for a marquee LHP or possibly lock as Philip is the only available lock and Metcher is last man in an Aust Super squad unsigned at prop - though he's a tighthead and we're covered there.
Last word
I'd like to see us sign a marquee LHP, a full contract to Robertson at THP, bring on Toleafoa and McCauley as future locks (pending NRC form), experiment with TQ as a back-up No.8, sign up QC (Quade Cooper) (despite thinking he's a despicable human being - hell, we managed okay with Guildford), and bring on Jones at the back, again pending NRC form.
What do you think our priorities should be?
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