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Waratahs 2017

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gowaratahs

gowaratahs

Sydney Middleton (9)
A mutterer said:
Our defense has been shit. Forget that Grey is the national defence coach - we have gone backwards defensively (and literally!) with him.
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Interesting how something went wrong with Grey's defence in 2001 when waltzing O'Driscoll found him out, now as a reknown defensive coach his players have gone from one of the best defensive outfits to one of the worst.

2012 under Foley - gave away 25 (2.7) points (tries) per game

2013 to 2015 under Cheika - gave away 23 (2), 17 (1.5) and 20 (2.5) points (tries) per game, respectively

2016 to 2017 under Gibson - gave away 21 (2.5) and now 34 (4.5) points (tries) per game, respectively

In 3 years, twice as many points against including three times as many tries...

And one of the worst, despite his brilliance in the lineout and effort around the ground, is Ned Hanigan. I reckon he's missed more one-on-one tackles than any other Tah this year, with at least 4 leading to tries.
 
Brumby Jack

Brumby Jack

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
The top missed tacklers for the Waratahs so far are:
Latu
Hooper
Horwitz
Horne
Phipps

The top 2 have 4 & 5 pilfers respectively and it's clear the plan is for either of them to go hard at the ball but unfortunately they are 1st and 3rd in being the most penalised, sandwiching Dean Mumm.
 
Froggy

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
BJ, I would be interested in percentages there.
On sheer numbers that's no doubt correct, but the likes of Hooper, Latu and Phipps probably attempt a hell of a lot more tackles than, say Foley or Simone, however I wouldn't mind betting they have a much higher percentage of missed tackles.
 
Froggy

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
Having said the above, Grey is the defence coach, it's his gig, and he should resign.
Sure, Gibson has defended him publicly, as he should, I will always defend my staff in public, but privately I expect results and, if necessary, will 'free up their future'!
 
Brumby Jack

Brumby Jack

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
The stats don't have percentages but like you said you'd expect them to be attempting a lot of tackles.

Stephen Hoiles did say on Kick and Chase tonight that Grey is going to the Wallabies full time
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Can't sayhaving Grey going to the Wallabies full time is inspiring me. I was a big fan of him as a player and thought in 2014-15 he made a massive difference to the Tahs and Wallabies. What has happened.

Is it a combination of teams working out the plan and how to beat it with some basic fundamental skill weaknesses in both sides such as the total lack of an effective kicker in the back three to relieve pressure, and the situation is not improved when Foley drops back to sweep at 15.
 
William88

William88

Syd Malcolm (24)
gowaratahs said:
Interesting how something went wrong with Grey's defence in 2001 when waltzing O'Driscoll found him out, now as a reknown defensive coach his players have gone from one of the best defensive outfits to one of the worst.

2012 under Foley - gave away 25 (2.7) points (tries) per game

2013 to 2015 under Cheika - gave away 23 (2), 17 (1.5) and 20 (2.5) points (tries) per game, respectively

2016 to 2017 under Gibson - gave away 21 (2.5) and now 34 (4.5) points (tries) per game, respectively

In 3 years, twice as many points against including three times as many tries.

And one of the worst, despite his brilliance in the lineout and effort around the ground, is Ned Hanigan. I reckon he's missed more one-on-one tackles than any other Tah this year, with at least 4 leading to tries.
Click to expand...

And it's the simple defense they are weakest at.

The ruck Defense slices open too quickly.

We also need to slow the ball down a bit more. It gets out way too quickly against NZ teams.
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
gowaratahs said:
Interesting how something went wrong with Grey's defence in 2001 when waltzing O'Driscoll found him out, now as a reknown defensive coach his players have gone from one of the best defensive outfits to one of the worst.

2012 under Foley - gave away 25 (2.7) points (tries) per game

2013 to 2015 under Cheika - gave away 23 (2), 17 (1.5) and 20 (2.5) points (tries) per game, respectively

2016 to 2017 under Gibson - gave away 21 (2.5) and now 34 (4.5) points (tries) per game, respectively

In 3 years, twice as many points against including three times as many tries.

And one of the worst, despite his brilliance in the lineout and effort around the ground, is Ned Hanigan. I reckon he's missed more one-on-one tackles than any other Tah this year, with at least 4 leading to tries.
Click to expand...
I hope Hanigan's misses don't include a couple of his last ditch efforts where blokes have beaten 14 tahs before they get to him. I've seen a coupl of those.
People seem to forget grey's fast gane wallabies defence coach where we shipped a shitload of points, iirc, and he said it was simple to fix, begging the obvious question why wasn't it addressed before the game.
These recently retired players have it too easy. They need to start in clubland as coaches, imo.
 
Hawko

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
William88 said:
They have no need.

Hanigan is a lineout man, but actually adds some sizzle around the paddock as well.
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Hanigan's best position will be 6. If Dempsey and Hanigan share that role next year that'll be good.

Hanigan is too light and too easily knocked backwards in the tackle to play 4 or 5. Simmons would be an improvement on him (not by much, but an improvement). To counter the Kiwi teams we need two big bruiser locks at least. Where we get them from I don't know, but that's what we need.
 
Froggy

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
If Dempsey returns to his pre-injury form, he should be 6 and Hanigan lock. Hanigan is young, he'll get heavier, besides which I haven't seen him getting knocked backwards all that much. We seem to be obsessed with ever bigger locks, and have way too many useless giants coming through. Some of the best locks in modern rugby, like Itoje and Thorne, are no bigger than Hanigan.
I'm looking for good, hard running and tackling, hard working and aggressive, then if we can have big as well that's great, but not big in place of those characteristics.
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Hawko said:
Hanigan's best position will be 6. If Dempsey and Hanigan share that role next year that'll be good.

Hanigan is too light and too easily knocked backwards in the tackle to play 4 or 5. Simmons would be an improvement on him (not by much, but an improvement). To counter the Kiwi teams we need two big bruiser locks at least. Where we get them from I don't know, but that's what we need.
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It depends who is the other lock "if" we had Douglas back Hanigan would be solid at lock
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Looking at recently released statistics Hanigan needs to vastly improve his defence before he can be regarded as solid.
 
Froggy

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
Regarding those tackle stats, while Hooper is up there on missed tackles, he's a mile ahead of anyone else on tackles made with 132, the next best are Tom Robertson with 88 and Tolu Latu with 81.
Hooper's missed tackle percentage is 17%, whereas people like Foley, Folau, Horwitz and Simone are over 30% missed. Damien Fitzpatrick hasn't missed a tackle yet according to the Fox Sport stats, and his competitor for number 2 hooker, Roach, actually misses more than he makes, with 14 made and 15 missed!
Out of interest, Hanigan's missed tackle percentage is 17%, same as Hooper's, with 73 tackles made, and Tom Robertson probably gets through more work than a lot of people credit him, with 88 tackles made (2nd highest for the Tahs) and only a 15% missed percentage
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
So the locks so far for next year are

Staniforth
McCauley
McDuling
Toleafoa

Not a lot of angry there
 
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