Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dave Beat]

We'd have a pretty strong Soup team offshore now even whilst fielding 5 teams;​

Loosing players overseas is frustrating enough, loosing and neglecting our pathway is also frustrating - the are now snapping up young kids.
A few Aussies mentioned in this article - and the English team and comp over there does rather well.

http://www.london-irish.com/news/porecki-resigns-with-london-irish/bp1575/

Ive read in various articles that they also invest in their pathway programs as well. This investment builds success, it attracts more supporters, and with more supports more interest, and with that sponsorship.​

Reducing to 4 teams we'll loose more players.
How often to our powers to be ask - Why?
Then review, and improve.

 

[Dave Beat]

And Ice Hockey has 8 teams in the AIHL . The problem is that our teams are in direct competition with the NZ teams who have significantly more depth and have been able to survive the loss of talent overseas much better. There would be similar problems if our A-League teams had to play the Premier League as part of our main competition or in Basketball if the NBL teams had to play the NBA teams. In League and AFL, no one cares because no one else really plays the sport (yes I know there is a world cup in League currently running). The international nature of Super Rugby may have been great for Australian rugby for the first 10 years but it is now clearly a chain dragging down the sport.

Yes true, but the Kiwi's are even taking some of our players now, with some of them playing finals footy.

 

[half]

James
I said I would write something on the weekend re your astute post, or that part of your post where you said “”””The international nature of Super Rugby may have been great for Australian rugby for the first 10 years but it is now clearly a chain dragging down the sport.””””

It’s been far more than 10 years. A bit of history from memory but it is very important as it has set in play our structure today. Its also were our solution lies if we are bold enough to take it.

Bear with me a bit.

The issue at its heart was the incredible miss management of southern hemisphere rugby during the 60’s, 70’s, 80,s and early 90’s and that Australian rugby was losing some of its best to league.

Then the Super League war broke out, and money was flowing in huge numbers and league was approaching 24 teams between the two camps.

Matthew Ridge a former All Black full back from NZ to Manly. Penrith RL signed a Southern African rugby player as well.

It’s fair to say a circuit breaker was needed, NZ & SA started to panic and the ARU was like a Roo caught in the lights of a car, just standing there waiting to be run over.

Some media suits came along and offered more money than in league for a 12 team Tri Nation competition.

The money protected with say 35 players to a squad, Australia 3 * 35 = 105 players, SA 4 * 35 = 140 players and NZ 5 * 35 = 175 players. Meaning the best 520 players across the 3 countries were protected from league.

Rugby could rate.

At this point we had 12 Shute Shield teams, a Canberra Competition, a very strong Hunter / Newcastle / Central Coast regions and Brisbane had its own competition. With both NZ & SA having already very strong domestic competitions.

The folly of continuing with a 3 team competition always had me screaming.

We kick out the Force to reduce teams and the end result is almost a civil war with the forced [no pun intended] break away west creating a new competition with even less Australian involvement.

We are approaching a tipping point where the support base will shrink to a level difficult to both expand and grow revenue. All the while other codes expanding.

Rugby needs its own national domestic competition because without it, Super Rugby will erode our base. All Super Rugby will do is die at a slower rate and it could take professional rugby down with it.

Its time to rid ourselves of amateurism in the way we manager rugby.

It’s time to bite the bullet. The warning signs are everywhere.

 

[dru]

@Half I could not agree more.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

As we all know our plan to expand is to shrink the teams from a mega big 5 to a massive 4.

Basketball plans to expand by four maybe more teams and could have the backing of the AFL. https://thewest.com.au/sport/basket...eyes-expansion-across-australia-ng-b88656755z


RL is stealing the PI islands, but thats an aside, both League and AFL are investing in women's competitions.

Basketball was almost broke, and has dragged itself up again, for the love of the holy mother mother Mary we need to change the board and get some people who know how to grow a business.

BTW the four team expansion I read somewhere else a while ago, I mention it hear as by having using AFL teams facilities it makes perfect sense for both sports.

Yes concerned about inroads league making on Pi countries...


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[wamberal]

I worked as a volunteer in Tonga, twenty years ago, and even then there were hundreds of young Tongans who had emigrated to play rugby league.



There is a simple factor at play, there are many times more paying jobs in rugby league in Australia, than there are in our code. Count up all the professional and, more importantly, semi-professional teams in league.

League is making inroads for one reason only. It has nothing to do with which game they prefer to watch (although I think you will find that they actually do like watching league, particularly when Tonga plays), it is all about money.

 

[Silverado]

I worked as a volunteer in Tonga, twenty years ago, and even then there were hundreds of young Tongans who had emigrated to play rugby league.



There is a simple factor at play, there are many times more paying jobs in rugby league in Australia, than there are in our code. Count up all the professional and, more importantly, semi-professional teams in league.

League is making inroads for one reason only. It has nothing to do with which game they prefer to watch (although I think you will find that they actually do like watching league, particularly when Tonga plays), it is all about money.

Of course it's all about money. Scrapping a Super Rugby team means there are less opportunities to be semi professional /professional in Rugby so we're pushing them towards league. If you don't make a Super squad, then there's really no plan B (NRC money is pitiful) Their strong performances in the RLWC will only make the situation worse


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[WorkingClassRugger]

Of course it's all about money. Scrapping a Super Rugby team means there are less opportunities to be semi professional /professional in Rugby so we're pushing them towards league. If you don't make a Super squad, then there's really no plan B (NRC money is pitiful) Their strong performances in the RLWC will only make the situation worse


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How many blokes from the Islands do you realistically think will be coming over? Most if not all of the PI guys in these teams have come through either the Aus or NZ system. The French club system takes and will continue to take more talent directly from the Islands than any other for the foreseeable.

All that's changing is many are beginning to view League as an avenue to earning a living. It's not just exclusively Rugby anymore. And it's not like the PIs are being completely ignored. Fiji have played Australia, Scotland, Italy and Ireland so far this year. Samoa have played both Scotland and Romania so far this tour and will play England next week. The only one of three not with at least one marquee fixture is Tonga who were comfortably beaten by Japan yesterday.

It's not perfect but it's hardly as dire as some are selling it to be.

Considering the number of nations beginning to put their hands up for more attention there's only so much room. And they already get a disproportionate degree of attention per capita. World Rugby is set to spend just under $35m in the region leading into the RWC. That's a sizeable chunk considering the population bases of the Islands.

 

[Gnostic]

I wonder how long before the NZRU works out that the game is in its death throes in Australia and they really need a plan B. I have no faith what so ever that the new ARU can arrest the slide and fully expect that the prophesy of the ARU being broke in 2019 will be very close to the truth. The ARU is on the nose now, they have managed to alienate all but the most rusted on Rugby supporters to the point that even those who play at lower levels do not watch the pro game. This will most assuredly flow onto the sponsorship dollars available and broadcast deals going forward.

Add in the digital disruption and the way the broadcasters were stuffed around with this mid contract restructure and can you honestly see them paying big dollars for Super Rugby again?

 

[Boomer]

I wonder how long before the NZRU works out that the game is in its death throes in Australia and they really need a plan B. I have no faith what so ever that the new ARU can arrest the slide and fully expect that the prophesy of the ARU being broke in 2019 will be very close to the truth. The ARU is on the nose now, they have managed to alienate all but the most rusted on Rugby supporters to the point that even those who play at lower levels do not watch the pro game. This will most assuredly flow onto the sponsorship dollars available and broadcast deals going forward.

Add in the digital disruption and the way the broadcasters were stuffed around with this mid contract restructure and can you honestly see them paying big dollars for Super Rugby again?

It's on the nose all right. The game's management is weak, if not complicit with all manner of dealings in the grey zone. Then we have the coach of the national team at his petulant worst overnight. That was an un-Australian performance in front of a worldwide audience. He brought shame on the team and on his nation. Does anyone at the highest level care how they are perceived by the remainder of the universe? Do they even care enough to save the game? Do they give a flying fig about the rest of us?

 

[wamberal]

Boomer,


No doubt it is satisfying to throw blame around all over the place. But the simple fact is that we are a niche sport in this country, and always have been, at least since 1908. We have had occasional bursts of success and prosperity, but at the age of 75 I can look back and say that for most of my life the sport I love has been an also ran in this country.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Yes concerned about inroads league making on Pi countries.


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With over 40% of NRL first graders now qualifying for one or more of NZ, Samoa or Tonga by heritage & given their free & easy qualifying process (incl being able to switch countries once every WC cycle) it was only ever a matter of time before someone was able to put together a competitive side from those unneeded, unwanted or unloved by their birth country.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

With over 40% of NRL first graders now qualifying for one or more of NZ, Samoa or Tonga by heritage & given their free & easy qualifying process (incl being able to switch countries once every WC cycle) it was only ever a matter of time before someone was able to put together a competitive side from those unneeded, unwanted or unloved by their birth country.

Except in Tonga's case weren't several of them already selected for NZ and one for Australia? Also, Fiji is hardly a surprise. It's the third time in a row they've qualified for the semi-finals.

 

[Boomer]

Boomer,


No doubt it is satisfying to throw blame around all over the place. But the simple fact is that we are a niche sport in this country, and always have been, at least since 1908. We have had occasional bursts of success and prosperity, but at the age of 75 I can look back and say that for most of my life the sport I love has been an also ran in this country.

I'm glad you feel we should all settle for poor leadership. I don't think we should.

 

[Quick Hands]

How many blokes from the Islands do you realistically think will be coming over? Most if not all of the PI guys in these teams have come through either the Aus or NZ system. The French club system takes and will continue to take more talent directly from the Islands than any other for the foreseeable.

All that's changing is many are beginning to view League as an avenue to earning a living. It's not just exclusively Rugby anymore. And it's not like the PIs are being completely ignored. Fiji have played Australia, Scotland, Italy and Ireland so far this year. Samoa have played both Scotland and Romania so far this tour and will play England next week. The only one of three not with at least one marquee fixture is Tonga who were comfortably beaten by Japan yesterday.

It's not perfect but it's hardly as dire as some are selling it to be.

Considering the number of nations beginning to put their hands up for more attention there's only so much room. And they already get a disproportionate degree of attention per capita. World Rugby is set to spend just under $35m in the region leading into the RWC. That's a sizeable chunk considering the population bases of the Islands.

You're aware that for the first time Tonga and Fiji are into the semi-finals of the RL world cup? Considering that percentage of Australian rugby players (at all levels) of PI descent playing rugby in Australia is way out of proportion to their percentage of the greater Australian population, I'd say it's a rather big issue. I go as far as saying that islanders have been propping up rugby in Australia for at least 20 years and that losing that is a fairly significant problem (as if we need another one) for Australian rugby. The only organisation more reliant on islanders than rugby would be the Uniting Church, whose only congregations of any significance these days are Tongan or Samoan.

 

[Jagman]

The only organisation more reliant on islanders than rugby would be the Uniting Church, whose only congregations of any significance these days are Tongan or Samoan.

Or Korean or Chinese or multicultural in general.

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[wamberal]

I'm glad you feel we should all settle for poor leadership. I don't think we should.

I did not say that. But frankly it would not matter who is in leadership positions in our sport, we would still be struggling. The overwhelming majority of Australians either do not like our game, or only like it very occasionally, when there is a huge contest on offer. We were overtaken by the AFL and the NRL (or the precursor competitions) many years ago. Both sports were professional, while we were amateur (that alone is a huge factor), both sports have always been designed to be more open and free-flowing, less hidebound by tradition, and so have always enjoyed vastly more popular support of all kinds.


Add soccer into the mix, from time to time.


We have always been up against it, nobody, but nobody, could have done very much to change this sad but inevitable state of affairs.


The only slight chance we have is to put our differences behind, and all work together for the sake of the game. That includes you, Twiggy, and all the rest of us.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You're aware that for the first time Tonga and Fiji are into the semi-finals of the RL world cup? Considering that percentage of Australian rugby players (at all levels) of PI descent playing rugby in Australia is way out of proportion to their percentage of the greater Australian population, I'd say it's a rather big issue. I go as far as saying that islanders have been propping up rugby in Australia for at least 20 years and that losing that is a fairly significant problem (as if we need another one) for Australian rugby. The only organisation more reliant on islanders than rugby would be the Uniting Church, whose only congregations of any significance these days are Tongan or Samoan.

You are aware that this is Tonga's first time in the RLWC semi-finals and the third time in a row for Fiji. They made the semi's in the 2013 and 2008 editions as well.

 

[wamberal]

The only organisation more reliant on islanders than rugby would be the Uniting Church, whose only congregations of any significance these days are Tongan or Samoan.

Hey, that gives me an idea. How about we give the next Soup Franchise to the Uniting Church??????

 

[TOCC]

I did not say that.

Maybe not precisely that, but you’ve inferred it numerous times by suggesting the current clowns are the best suited for the job and they shouldn’t be sacked