Wallabies 40 man squad

[Braveheart81]

I doubt it will come into it.

They all get the same match payments for playing the game so the cost should be the same to the ARU regardless of who they select.

 

[fatprop]

6- Dennis
7- Pocock
8- Higginbotham

19- Palu

That is perfectly balanced in my opinion, and its not like Palu warrants a start, Higgers and Dennis have been in better form all year.

It depends on the game plan to me,

If we choose to play with width early to say move a big pack around, Higgers wins because of his mobility and ball skills

If we are going up the middle, Palu wins because he bends the line continually

Against dockyards brawlers attempting to make the tackle area a shit fight, neither, Dennis & McCalman win - we need everyone to hit those rucks

 

[twenty seven]

Haha... what?

Shit day- sorry.
What I am trying to say is, Are we doing young players any favours 'blooding' them to soon? Have played enough rugby before playing at an elite level. They learn all the skills and drills there but they learn how to deal wth certain situations on the field. Yeah they learn some crap too but it usually balances itself out.
I am not criticising anyone player - there are a few young and 'excting' players coming through who go from school rugby to elite rugby. Call me old school.

 

[suckerforred]

6- Dennis
7- Pocock
8- Higginbotham

19- Palu

That is perfectly balanced in my opinion, and its not like Palu warrants a start, Higgers and Dennis have been in better form all year.

Looks good. I would be happy even if Higgers and Palu were swapped.

 

[Scarfman]

If Higgers starts then the locks have to stay 100% in the ruck zone cleaning out. If we see Sharpey or anyone else play loose then we'll know utterly bad this coaching team is.

 

[Lee Grant]

Good point there Scarfman.

Many of we amateur pundits pay little regard to balance in a team. We tend to pick 15 individuals and to adore the spectacular player rather than the workhorse. But we don't want all draught horses either: we need a few thoroughbreds.

To some Dave Dennis may seem to be better Wallaby material than Higginbotham, but get a backrow of Pocock, Dennis and Palu together (only as an example) and it lacks a bit of sizzle. Higgers would be needed in that scenario, but if a fellow like Hooper starts at 7 in a test match, you don't need Higgers so much at 6.

Likewise you don't want both props to be pot plants or both seagulls. Nor do you want two 2nd rowers who have "all the skills" but lack grunt in the scrum and elsewhere.

It pertains to the backs also. It's great to have JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) in a side ( and I hope they will be ASAP) but you wouldn't want to have too many of that type - you need a balance of whizz kids, facilitators and custodians.

Some things about the balance of a team are obvious, but some are not.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't know. If we had 4 Kurtley Beales and 3 James O'Connors, I'd like to see them given a go in the backline together.

The commentary would get confusing though.

 

[Scarfman]

The ABs would run through us like a field of sheep.

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe we can make it like NFL and have defensive and offensive teams.

Defensive backline can be 7 Pat McCabes.

 

[Gnostic]

Good point there Scarfman.

Many of we amateur pundits pay little regard to balance in a team. We tend to pick 15 individuals and to adore the spectacular player rather than the workhorse. But we don't want all draught horses either: we need a few thoroughbreds.

To some Dave Dennis may seem to be better Wallaby material than Higginbotham, but get a backrow of Pocock, Dennis and Palu together (only as an example) and it lacks a bit of sizzle. Higgers would be needed in that scenario, but if a fellow like Hooper starts at 7 in a test match, you don't need Higgers so much at 6.

Likewise you don't want both props to be pot plants or both seagulls. Nor do you want two 2nd rowers who have "all the skills" but lack grunt in the scrum and elsewhere.

It pertains to the backs also. It's great to have JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) in a side ( and I hope they will be ASAP) but you wouldn't want to have too many of that type - you need a balance of whizz kids, facilitators and custodians.

Some things about the balance of a team are obvious, but some are not.
.

I still think that the best Wallabies side I have seen in terms of balance was the 1991 team, with Tim Gavin. The 1999 RWC side was very good but they played a horrible game plan (though a winning one I admit) IMO and selected accordingly for that plan as should be the case.

Its all about balance AND selecting players in their proper position. Some can be moved around or progress to other positions through their career but most are specialists in a spot.

I want to see the best player in each position selected but the whole of team dynamic and balance must be born in mind, IMO we have seen many Wallabies teams of the near past fail because of the lack of balance and the lack of suitability for the selection to the game plan being played.

 

[RedsHappy]

Some posters may be interested - or gravely concerned depending upon your perspective - that the new Assistant Coach Blades is spouting the well-worn Deans' theory of the full interchangeability of LHPs and THPs:

Versatile props advantage for Wallabies
Ben Horne Ch9 WWOS
17:29 AEST Thu May 31 2012

Wallabies forwards coach Andrew Blades says front row versatility will help the Australian scrum adjust to short turnarounds in next week's opening Tests against Scotland and Wales.

Blades says changes made to replacement rules since his playing days have nullified the importance of having specialists in the tighthead and loosehead positions, and flexibility can help take the Australian scrum forward.

In last year's World Cup, Wallabies props Sekope Kepu and Ben Alexander played on the opposite sides of the scrum to where they play at provincial level - and Blades says the concept of switching certain players around up front to best suit the side is likely to continue.

"We're really lucky we have a number of guys who adapt well to both sides," Blades said.

"We've got Keps (Kepu) who is adept at playing both sides, Benny Alexander (who moves to tight head for the Brumbies clash with Melbourne) adept at playing both sides ... and Slips (James Slipper) can also play both sides as well.

"It's helpful because of the nature of the season. If you get lots of one-sided props in a total squad you find it difficult to adapt.

"We could potentially go into a Test with one specialist and two guys who can play both sides and we get great coverage."

With just days between the weekend's Super Rugby matches, the Tuesday Test against Scotland and Saturday week's match against Wales - Blades says the coaching staff have looked at a variety of methods to best prepare the pack.

The bottom line is they're keeping things simple.

Experienced players are likely to be relied upon in the Scotland game to help with adjusting to calls at the set-piece, and video tutorials have been used to bring players not participating in training up to speed.

 

[cyclopath]

Not being a professional coach, I'll concede the Burkian Coefficient applies to my opinion, but it baffles me why, just when we seem to be getting a few decent props in either position, this mantra of "interchangeable" and the slavish worship of "work rate" keep popping up. Other good teams don't really pursue this folly to anything like this extent, although I agree a degree of versatility is a good thing. I take some comfort he didn't list Ma'afu in there.

 

[Brumbieman]

Well, McCabe is the best Australian inside centre this year...

Fainga'a on the other hand...

Fainga'a on the other hand? On the other hand what?

What exactly do you have against him? The fact that he left the Brumbies, and is therefore no longer a god? Jesus H Christ, people call me one eyed. Fainga'a has shat all over every other option at 13 this year, when he wasn't injured. You think its a coincidence that the Reds shipped 100 odd points in the 2 games immediately following his injury? And that the Reds held the Crusaders and Brumbies tryless, in the few weeks AFTER his return?

He does exactly the same thing McCabe does: straighten the attack, clobber people in defence, work harder than anyone else out there, and become an extra flanker out wide. McCabe has improved out of sight this year, his attacking abilities, and has worked out how to avoid utterly choking an attacking backline, and fair play to him. However, you then dismiss Fainga'a, on what possible basis?

Name me one possible reason you could say 'Fainga'a on the other hand..." in a derogatory manner, as though he's a pretender who has somehow bullshitted his way into the Wallaby squad, or been unfairly selected ahead of more viable options? Whilst on the field, he's been by a considerable distance the form 13 in Aus, and if you doubt that, consider the fact that the 'Wallaby coach in waiting' has penned him in as one of the first choice players in his championship winning side, for the past 3 seasons.


You seriously need to get the fuck over your Brumbie-mania and actually assess players on what they do on the field.



Edit: Adding this as an afterthought: Instead of the sly, innocent derogatory comments, why don't you just come out and put your cock on the block, and tell everyone what you actually think about Fainga'a? Brutally honest assessment of his positives/weaknesses/skill set/attitude/influence on teammates etc. Leave no holds barred.

Be man enough to actually back up your derisive annotations.

 

[Gnostic]

Why not go the way of Eddie Jones. FFS it has taken years to partly erase the damage done and a number of good props have suffered for the reputation of Australian scrummaging that arose from this drive of his toward loose League style play.

The tone is set by the National Coaches and the players will aim for that style regardless of what their provincial coach wants to a large degree if they want to be selected in the national side.

I truly despair.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

I agree re fainga and McCabe the are both very good players who do a lot of work but one thing we can't afford to do is have the player together. we just lose to much in attack especially with JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale out of the side.


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[Brumbieman]

Why not go the way of Eddie Jones. FFS it has taken years to partly erase the damage done and a number of good props have suffered for the reputation of Australian scrummaging that arose from this drive of his toward loose League style play.

The tone is set by the National Coaches and the players will aim for that style regardless of what their provincial coach wants to a large degree if they want to be selected in the national side.

I truly despair.

I've been saying all year, probably the most important part of these tests is to select a forward pack that will crush Wales/Scotland. We most certainly have the available players, its just a matter of actually picking them. If we dont spend the next few years making sure we CRUSH every NH scrum we face, we'll never shed the 'Aus scrum is shit' myth, and continue to be penalised out of games for it. Hell, it cost us the world cup! The Irish scrum is pathetic, yet Lawrence awarded them the penalties, because of this eternal myth.

 

[Brumbieman]

I agree re fainga and McCabe the are both very good players who do a lot of work but one thing we can't afford to do is have the player together. we just lose to much in attack especially with JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale out of the side.


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Last year, i'd have completely agreed. However, McCabe has introduced many new strings to his bow this year. Hell, i've seen him actually put a man through a gap with a pass! I've seen him STEP someone :O

I've even see him run at the space between two defenders, instead of the tighthead prop's strongest shoulder, as upright as possible!

If he can translate these new found abilities to the test arena, then there is no reason we cant pair the two together, as long as we have a creative/fast back three.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Last year, i'd have completely agreed. However, McCabe has introduced many new strings to his bow this year. Hell, i've seen him actually put a man through a gap with a pass! I've seen him STEP someone :O

I've even see him run at the space between two defenders, instead of the tighthead prop's strongest shoulder, as upright as possible!

If he can translate these new found abilities to the test arena, then there is no reason we cant pair the two together, as long as we have a creative/fast back three.

fair enough but I would still like to see him at 13 with Barnes and cooper putting him into the gaps.


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[Gnostic]

I've been saying all year, probably the most important part of these tests is to select a forward pack that will crush Wales/Scotland. We most certainly have the available players, its just a matter of actually picking them. If we dont spend the next few years making sure we CRUSH every NH scrum we face, we'll never shed the 'Aus scrum is shit' myth, and continue to be penalised out of games for it. Hell, it cost us the world cup! The Irish scrum is pathetic, yet Lawrence awarded them the penalties, because of this eternal myth.

Agreed it is still costing Oz teams at Super level also, such as the games against the Crusaders where Franks and Crocket packed every scrum with a hand on the ground, in front of the ref.

I feel the veins bulging in my forehead whenever I hear the excuses of lack of depth in Oz Rugby. We have more players of quality in each position now than we ever had in the past, especially the front row, it is just a matter of proper selection in their correct positions and on form (and in Maafu's case fitness and form).

 

[Brumbieman]

fair enough but I would still like to see him at 13 with Barnes and cooper putting him into the gaps.


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Barnes?!