2013 Ashes Part 2 - Down Under

[Train Without a Station]

That's such a copout BR. It's barely different to the Wallabies in Dublin incident. It was a case of players not towing the line and a coach getting zero support trying to instil discipline. A number of non-reported events lead to that. How can you side with players, paid to be professionals, not completely a simple task.

I'm all for the change and from reports of the on-edge feeling in the dressing rooms prior, it had to be made, but Arthur has copped some unfair criticism for disciplining a losing team, who didn't have the professionalism to taking every step possible to arrest those losses.

 

[Braveheart81]

Arthur was not a good coach but there was clearly an issue with players not supporting him fairly as well.

Dave Warner played a big part in Arthur losing his job through his poor behaviour (the Joe Root incident and the tweets about journalists) and Watson kept acting like a petulant child and the result was him losing the vice captaincy.

I am glad Boof came in and have always been a massive fan of him as a cricketer (as a fellow left handed batsmen who loves the cut shot and beer, what's not to love?). I think he's done a lot to improve the culture of the team but at the same time, it's easy to have a harmonious dressing room when everything is going your way. Let's not forget that a few months ago we got smashed in England and there weren't a lot of signs that things had improved at all.

Australia has fielded particularly well in this series and that has probably been the major difference. At all the key moments, Australia has played well and England has played badly (particularly dropped catches off batsmen who then went on to make a big score). This is pretty much the reverse of what happened in England and I think it would be premature to think that this Australian cricket side is now a world beating team.

Our batting is still incredibly fragile and we've been dug out of trouble by our lower order in every first innings. Mitchell Johnson has produced career best form and has been the major difference between the sides. He bowled well in the ODIs in India but there was a strong chance that if a bowler like Pattinson was healthy, Johnson wouldn't have even played.

 

[Braveheart81]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash3/1525671_573693342714551_1641642307_n.jpg

Interesting that CUB provides the team with Peroni as well. They might brew it, but you'd think that the sponsors would be wanting the team to only be drinking VB or Crown in photos.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

The low point of the Aus cricket team in decades was the awful business about doing homework. Just the actions of a power freak treating adults as kindergarten children. Unfortunately have seen too much of this sort of tripe in the work world in recent years as well. Well done to Boof for bringing some pride back into the players.

That's such a copout BR. It's barely different to the Wallabies in Dublin incident. It was a case of players not towing the line and a coach getting zero support trying to instil discipline. A number of non-reported events lead to that. How can you side with players, paid to be professionals, not completely a simple task.

I'm all for the change and from reports of the on-edge feeling in the dressing rooms prior, it had to be made, but Arthur has copped some unfair criticism for disciplining a losing team, who didn't have the professionalism to taking every step possible to arrest those losses.

Not sure if anyone heard Arthur on Fairfax radio commentating on the cricket this week but he was very open when it came to his time as coach and didn’t shy away from any questions asked by the other commentators.

He was flat out asked about the whole homework thing and if he had his time again would he change anything.

He went on to explain how it all came about.

He said going into one of the matches in India the team had made a plan not to sweep ANYTHING during the pitch and bowlers they saw that shot as a weakness.

Fast forward to the match and the top 3 batsman all get out for low scores SWEEPING….

After the match he said to the players to take a long hard look at themselves and asked for input on how they could turn it around before the next game. He said to each player over the next 3-4 days come up with 3 things that could help to change the way the team/yourself performance and jot them down and give them to me.

He said some handed it to them other emailed and some even slipped it under his door all bar the players who got suspended.

He said it was a line in the sand moment “much the same as the Wallabies the other week” where some players had just been coasting, not towing the team line and something need to be done to change it. He had the full support of the Captain and the board.

The big difference he said was that he public back home reacted negatively to the decision where as with the Wallabies McKenzie was prised for much the same thing.

He said the players has all accepted they where in he wrong and that he still had the support of all the players after that point well all the players bar one Watson…. It was also said by one of the other commentators when Arthur wasn’t there that he still has plenty of support from the players shown by Warner. When he scored his first ton of the Ashes they said Arthur was the second person he call to thank him for helping him get to that point which was interesting.

Also something he said which was interesting was about the players he had available. He was in charge I think for 9 tours and someone like Harris was only fit for 4 games and Johnson out for 18 months.

Not saying he was the best coach but was very interesting and refreshing hearing from him in such a candid way and not through the hyperbole that is the media.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash3/1525671_573693342714551_1641642307_n.jpg

Interesting that CUB provides the team with Peroni as well. They might brew it, but you'd think that the sponsors would be wanting the team to only be drinking VB or Crown in photos.

As I posted on the craft beer thread, an appropriate beer to celebrate winning the Ashes would have been an English Bitter. A West Australian Brewed English Bitter would be ideal.

Does the Feral Brewery do one of these?

 

[Train Without a Station]

There's been a few comments from people also saying how glad they are the rotation policy has been put to bed and we are performing better without it.

There's no rotation policy because there's nobody to rotate. Plain and simple. The replacement bowling options now aren't like a year ago when we had close to 6 pace options and were able to try and manage injuries.

Had James Pattinson, Pat Cummins, Jackson Bird, etc. all been fit and firing there is a good chance one may have played in Adelaide to rest Harris.

The rotation policy is another one the archaic, stuck in the 70s arm chair fans like to complain about, yet then piss and moan when our players get injured.

Fucking fantastic we won the Ashes. But let's not be so quick to sink the boot into everybody who was there at the bottom, not as much has changed as we seem to think.

 

[Brumby Runner]

That's such a copout BR. It's barely different to the Wallabies in Dublin incident. It was a case of players not towing the line and a coach getting zero support trying to instil discipline. A number of non-reported events lead to that. How can you side with players, paid to be professionals, not completely a simple task.

I'm all for the change and from reports of the on-edge feeling in the dressing rooms prior, it had to be made, but Arthur has copped some unfair criticism for disciplining a losing team, who didn't have the professionalism to taking every step possible to arrest those losses.

I have no problem with the coach/management disciplining errant players, and fully supported the actions of Link in standing down the Dublin 6. In the case of the cricketers, I presume you are privy to information not generally available to the rest of us about alleged non-reported events, but even if that is so, I hold the view (quite justifiably in my opinion) that the sort of action Arthur implemented was immature and disparaging of our elite cricketers. Had he taken action similar to Link and stood a player or two down from test match duty, I would have had no problem. Homework - really!Adults should be treated in an adult way.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was a compulsory task set for all members of the team.

How is it any different to say not turning up to a training session?

These are professional athletes. They should act like professionals.

 

[mark_s]

The parallel would be Link asking the whole Wallaby squad to submit 3 suggestions as to how tour behaviour could be improved following the dublin fiasco. What would that have achieved? Stuff all, except undermine Link's authority with the team, make him look petty, piss off the players who didnt play up.... There is no upside in this approach.

These are professional athletes. They should act like professionals, and be dealt with like professionals when necessary.

 

[I like to watch]

I don't get the criticism of the coach.
These are professional players,who are paid a shitload of cash and treated like royalty.
In India they were playing like chumps.
They were asked to review their own performance,to look for improvements and to advise the coach where they could see they needed to improve.
Watson only had to stop gazing into the mirror for 10 minutes to complete the task,but for 3 days he was too busy.
If the ACB had a no dickhead policy, there would be a few missing in the squad.

 

[The Red Baron]

How the fuck did the conversation go from us winning the Ashes to arguing about the homework incident in India?? I believe there is a term for it - 'does not compute'.

 

[No4918]

The Arthur affair just has me very happy that Deans has copped it on the chin and not been heard of. Whether Arthur did, or didn't do the right thing by suspending players he needs to shut up about it all. It seems like he wants the spotlight on him, this is at least the third time he has come out saying stuff. A previous comment about how this is the way he wanted the Australians to play is childish and very easy to make. Very pissed off that we are talking about this after having just thumped the poms.

 

[mark_s]

How the fuck did the conversation go from us winning the Ashes to arguing about the homework incident in India?? I believe there is a term for it - 'does not compute'.

It's my fault. I apologise. Let normal ashes transmission resume.

 

[Scotty]

Arthur was not a good coach but there was clearly an issue with players not supporting him fairly as well.

Dave Warner played a big part in Arthur losing his job through his poor behaviour (the Joe Root incident and the tweets about journalists) and Watson kept acting like a petulant child and the result was him losing the vice captaincy.

I am glad Boof came in and have always been a massive fan of him as a cricketer (as a fellow left handed batsmen who loves the cut shot and beer, what's not to love?). I think he's done a lot to improve the culture of the team but at the same time, it's easy to have a harmonious dressing room when everything is going your way. Let's not forget that a few months ago we got smashed in England and there weren't a lot of signs that things had improved at all.

Australia has fielded particularly well in this series and that has probably been the major difference. At all the key moments, Australia has played well and England has played badly (particularly dropped catches off batsmen who then went on to make a big score). This is pretty much the reverse of what happened in England and I think it would be premature to think that this Australian cricket side is now a world beating team.

Our batting is still incredibly fragile and we've been dug out of trouble by our lower order in every first innings. Mitchell Johnson has produced career best form and has been the major difference between the sides. He bowled well in the ODIs in India but there was a strong chance that if a bowler like Pattinson was healthy, Johnson wouldn't have even played.

While I disagree that the team didn't show signs of improvement in England, there are two obvious points to make:

1. Lehman only just got the gig
2. We didn't hear anything about team culture issues after he took over

 

[Scotty]

I don't get the criticism of the coach.
These are professional players,who are paid a shitload of cash and treated like royalty.
In India they were playing like chumps.
They were asked to review their own performance,to look for improvements and to advise the coach where they could see they needed to improve.
Watson only had to stop gazing into the mirror for 10 minutes to complete the task,but for 3 days he was too busy.
If the ACB had a no dickhead policy, there would be a few missing in the squad.

If there were a no dickheads policy I reckon our bowling attack would be the same but we'd only have 2 or 3 of our top 7 batting line up in tact (I am undecided on whether Bailey falls into that pile or not)!

 

[I like to watch]

Interesting you say that.
Take away M Johnson and his impact this series.how good is this batting lineup under pressure?
I suggest the results flatter them.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Our batting line up is certainly a work in progress and by no means solid yet, but what does it say about England? I said to a mate today that hands-down the England top six is on paper a better group, with a record to match. Fact is though, they didn't perform and ours managed to hold it together for long enough to get the chocolates. I would suggest that Warner, Smith and Clarke are a lock but I'm not sold on the others. I've said plenty about Watson -- he's a flat track bully and rarely gets runs when we need him to. Rogers, as good as he is at first class level, has been solid at best. Maybe that's all you need with Warner up the other end? Bailey I'm a fan of as a bloke and team man, but I think he needs to kick on in the last two tests.

The guys in doubt aren't really the right age to not be cementing spots either. In the case of Warner and Smith they have time on their side, but the other blokes don't.

 

[Scotty]

Interesting you say that.
Take away M Johnson and his impact this series.how good is this batting lineup under pressure?
I suggest the results flatter them.

Yes, the without a doubt.

We all know Clarke can produce but he didn't in England which is the primary reason they beat us I believe (we were reliant on his ability to lead the younger and less talented players).

This time he has produced and found alies in a few blokes with as much talent but less polish - Warner and Smith, with the help of 150-200 runs consistently from Haddin and the tail.

I like Rogers and feel he has something to offer for a limited period. However I don't think we can carry both Watson and Bailey, who in my opinion are restricted by talent (and maybe technique).

Bailey gets two more chances otherwise I would have Hughes back in the side and push Watson to six.

 

[mark_s]

Watsons wicket in the 2nd innings said a lot. Hanging his head and sulking is under 7s stuff, not running to cross over when the ball is in the air just makes it a tiny bit harder for the next man in and is self indulgent by Watson. At a quiet moment, he should be spoken to very directly as that wasn't good enough.

In terms of ability, his results with bat and ball would be good if he were at number 6. It's a pity we went with Bailey (who is also a 6 batsmen) and not Doolan, because we would now be in a position were we could swap Watson/Doolan in the order given Doolan is a more suited to the top of the order. But, who knows how the first 3 tests would have played out if Bailey wasn't there, sliding doors and all that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Fuck mate Doolan does not average enough in FC cricket to say he is a 3 and Watson is not.

Rogers and Bailey are surely further on their way out then Watson. Both older. In addition, neither scored a blistering hundred in a tight match where that was a very significant difference in the 2 sides.

If the bloke doesn't maintain his recent run of batting for the next 5 tests I will have the knives out too, but let's not start saying one of the 4 batsmen who have performed and scored a century and another half in these 3 tests (and also a century and half in the last 2 in England) shouldn't be there and disregard the 2 who have performed even worse.