2013 Ashes Part 2 - Down Under

[mark_s]

Nice Rant TWS. I didn't say drop Watson. I said he would be good at 6 given his results with bat and ball and that he should be given a warnign about the way he got out in Perth as thats not good enough.

I was saying that, in hindsight, we might have been better placed if we had of chosen Doolan instead of Bailey for test 1, given Doolan was the other strong candidate and is younger than Bailey, has a similar FC average to Bailey and Doolan has FC form this year.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I sort of got a bit carried away with earlier comments too haha.

Below is a comment I made on the roar a couple of days back regarding our batsmen

The thing is Watson has an FC Average of 43 with 19 Centuries and 48 halves. The proposed alternatives are averaging less than that, so what is there to say they will improve at international level? If you are going to cite their FC average as being better than Watson’s test average you cannot disregard his superior FC average.
Based on FC Averages our current players are as follows (I have included all of this seasons top shield run scorers and anybody current who has already played for Australia in any format – “*” indicates capped and subsequently dropped for poor form):
1. Chris Rogers: 49.72
2. Michael Clarke: 48.92
3. David Warner: 46.97
4. Phil Hughes: 45.54 *
5. Steve Smith: 43.51
6. Shane Watson: 43.43
7. Chris Lynn: 43.25
8. Marcus North: 41.37 *
9. Adam Voges: 41.52 *
10. Cameron White: 40.76 *
11. Joe Burns: 40.73
12. Ed Cowan: 40.10 *
13. Nic Maddinson: 40.01
14. Usman Khawaja: 39.68 *
15. Brad Haddin: 39.68
16. Matthew Wade: 39.00 *
17. Jordan Silk: 38.36
18. George Bailey: 37.98
19. Alex Doolan: 37.92
20. Michael Klinger: 37.55
21. Tom Cooper: 36.53
22. Glen Maxwell: 36.43 *
23. Rob Quiney: 35.99 *
24. Shaun Marsh: 35.02 *
25. Peter Forrest: 33.19
26. Ryan Carters: 32.91
27. Moises Henriques: 31.78 *
28. James Faulkner: 30.52
29. Travis Head: 30.43
30. Ben Dunk: 28.42
31. Mitchell Marsh: 24.67
The only player in our current top FC averages is Hughes. So he’s the only player who could feel aggrieved. But then he has had his issues at test level, so is he immediately ready to come back in again? Then there’s Chris Lynn. Decent average. Still less than Watson so how would he be any better in theory? Nic Maddinson and Joe Burns maybe… But then how do we expect them to do any better than similar performers who have struggled too? From there the numbers dip into the 30s are are not worth looking at.
That leaves us with James Faulkener being named by many as the man to replace Watson as an all rounder? Based on what? An inferior FC average of 13 runs? Watson has more runs on the board pardon the pun, as a batsman, than Faulkner does as an all rounder ready to step up to test level.
The fact is, based on FC Averages, Watson is the 5th best current bat in the country, and a reasonable consideration at 3 based on his best returns and consistency coming as an opener

At the moment In think the stats really show that Hughes and Watson are a class above Maddinson and Doolan as FC players. Lynn may be but at his age there probably isn't enough of a sample size to form an accurate judgement yet.

Definitely shows Hughes is up there as a contender. Also shows that with the exception of Clarke, FC form is hard to translate into test form, with all averages taking a belting. Rogers the most losing about 18 runs off his FC Average.

 

[Braveheart81]

I still think Hughes is the next man in to the Australian batting order. He continually shows that he is a class batsman at first class level and outscores his rivals.

I certainly wouldn't be picking him to come back into the team on a tour to India, but I think if he was picked for a test series in one batting position (probably 3) and left there for the duration of the series he'd cement his spot.

Whilst he's had several bites at the cherry in the past, getting moved around the batting order in almost every test has certainly made it difficult for him to succeed.

Plenty of people seem ready to move past him and pick Doolan or someone else but he's still young and I think will end up playing a lot of test cricket for Australia. People seem to forget that a lot of our successful batsmen got dropped one or more times before they secured their spot (both Waughs, Hayden, Clarke, Langer etc.).

 

[mark_s]

I like hughes and really want him to be a test cricketer. I am worried that he won't get too many more chances and would rather give him more time in shield cricket to proove beyond any possible doubt (including self doubts) that he deserves to be there (ala Hayden). It would be a punt to go with anyone else given no one else is demanding selection right now.

BTW, I don't think we should drop bailey now. I was just bemusing as to what might of happened had the selectors gone a different way for test 1.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Funny Watson doesn't get that slack though BH. In the last 8 tests he has opened, batted at 3, 4 and 5.

Hayden is the most appropriate comparison to Hughes isn't he? Had a few chances and failed to cement a spot until the late 90s. Would always dominate when he came back to Shield.

 

[Braveheart81]

Funny Watson doesn't get that slack though BH. In the last 8 tests he has opened, batted at 3, 4 and 5.

Hayden is the most appropriate comparison to Hughes isn't he? Had a few chances and failed to cement a spot until the late 90s. Would always dominate when he came back to Shield.

I've never been a fan of Watson but I wouldn't be dropping him. I still think he's got a spot in the team. Ultimately I'd like to see Watson bat at 6 which is the prime spot for an all rounder but currently, he's the best man we have for 3.

The way I see it, Bailey and Rogers will be the next two to go. I don't think Bailey has the technique for test cricket and whilst he will bludgeon the bowling when Australia is on top, he will always struggle against swing and good bowling in general, particularly when he comes in at 4/100 and Australia are in trouble. He has no foot movement when the ball is on a good length around/outside off stump.

Rogers is fine at the moment but at 36, when he loses form, he will need to go. At some point in the next couple of years it is highly likely his reflexes will go and he just won't be up to batting at test level.

That said, the team has finally had some success and with that, it buys time for all the players involved. This team will certainly be locked in for the tour to South Africa.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Couldn't agree more BH. Currently he's the best man we have for 3.

Perhaps somebody will come along, but right now there isn't anybody.

I think with Rogers only getting 1 half century, at his age his spot is on the line. Being 36 with a test average of 31 I would personally be inclined the replace him now, but the man to replace him with, Phillip Hughes only has a similar average so I wouldn't expect immediate returns.

 

[Braveheart81]

If we were down 2-nil now and went on to lose the Ashes, people like Rogers and Bailey (and possibly Watson) would immediately be in the firing line.

None of them are going to be under threat at 3-nil up and our first Ashes victory since 2006/07.

I also highly doubt Rogers is likely to retire. He'll be hoping to play every test he possibly can for Australia given his late resurgence. It will be up to the selectors to make the decision when the time comes.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If I was in his shoes neither would I!

But at 36 with an average of 31 and 8 tests on the trot under the belt, I believe the selectors will be making that decision for him sooner rather than later.

I'd like to see it now, but the next 5 tests may be the deadline for both him and Bailey to stake a claim to stay in the team.

 

[Scotty]

Rogers is playing a role. At this stage Bailey isn't. While BH may be right about his spot being safe for SA tour I think that if Bailey doesn't make a significant contribution in the next two games we should look at bringing Hughes back to 3 and push Watson to 6.

We are trying to build a team that can get back to No. 1, and can't rest on laurels.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm of the view that you don't change a winning team and you also give blokes a few games to see if they are any good, so the batting order should stay as it is until the end of the series. The selectors can then assess after that. In all likelihood this will be as good as it gets for some blokes, as they are playing a tired looking England team on home soil. The next series is against the Saffers away and they have the most lethal pace attack in world cricket. Holding them at bay and making a competitive score is going to be absolutely crucial. So there can't be any passengers in the top 6 and hopefully the blokes currently making runs in the Shield will continue to do so. We've got to have some batsmen ready to take the step up if needed.

 

[Lindommer]

The selectors would be well advised to take a leaf out of Scotty's book. There should be some serious reviews of a few blokes' performances after this series, Rogers, Watson, Bailey and Harris in particular. As TBH alludes to the series against the Saffers is going to be bloody tough, I reckon another opener, a middle order batsman (probably Hughes if he's still in form) and one of the young fast bowling tyros could be added to this team to make up the touring squad. Crucially, the players added MUST be up to test match standard. Personally, I'd take two of the tyros.

Faulkner? Dunno much about him, can someone fill me in.

 

[Scotty]

Harris? I think he has been pretty damn good.

We still need some back up though.

 

[Lindommer]

Harris should be marked heavily on his ability to back up, not his propensity to take wickets. I agree he's been pretty damn good, but I don't want to see a bung Harris in a test against the Saffers over there.

 

[No4918]

Swann is gone, retired with immediate effect.

Few thoughts:
- well done on his career
- this after the recent comments makes me think they truly are broken
- he won't be the last. Anderson hasn't looked like he has had his heart in it so far and 'the ego' looks anything but.
- 5-0

 

[cyclopath]

I have to say I am bemused at the response on social media to Swann retiring. It has been pretty harsh, especially given we don't yet know the full story. I mean, he was a bit of a twat with the Sprinkler dance, but nowhere near Warnie's lofty heights of arse-boganry over the years.
I agree that the England camp seems completely broken.

 

[Sully]

Is a strange time to retire. 3/5 of the way through a series. Why not keep playing?

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[cyclopath]

Is a strange time to retire. 3/5 of the way through a series. Why not keep playing?

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Because he's a liability, averaging 80 with the ball at 4 / over, and averaging about 5 with the bat. I don't know, maybe there are other reasons too.
Have you seen some of the Twitter stuff - telking him to "Fuck off" and so on? I reckon that's pretty poor.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Yeah it's poor, but social media gives every troll in the world an unfiltered mouth piece. Were I an international sportsman of any note, I certainly would *not* be on Twitter. But congrats on a fine career Swanny: 255 wickets in 80 tests is a great record for an off-spinner. It is odd that he's going now, but it seems there is trouble at mill for England.

 

[I like to watch]

I have to say I am bemused at the response on social media to Swann retiring. It has been pretty harsh, especially given we don't yet know the full story. I mean, he was a bit of a twat with the Sprinkler dance, but nowhere near Warnie's lofty heights of arse-boganry over the years.
I agree that the England camp seems completely broken.

It seems to me that if you are a twat on the way up,you hear from an awful lot of twats on your way down/out.