1. Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

2017 SA Rugby

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by PaarlBok, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. PaarlBok Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    1,271
    SA rugby down to the ground at the moment. Surely bottom but still far from dead as what many Saffer chicken runners hope.

    Luckily in sport and rugby it work in cycles. Pretty confident that our base is big enough to turn the corner and to take our rightfull place in world rugby.

    The Cheetahs show the way, they received years of stick and look what have they achieve in this year CC. They were the unbeaten champion for 2016 and look like a totally different team to what we were use to over many years.

    The most positive from the CC for myself was the brand of rugby from all the provinces. Look like we finally play some attractive running rugby.


    Looking forward to 2017
    dru likes this.
  2. Hawko Peter Sullivan (51)

    Likes Received:
    2,822

    Quite often teams in CC have played a good style of running rugby. There are two problems:
    1. Super defences are faster (particularly NZ) and are therefore much more difficult to penetrate. SA teams tend to revert when under pressure (except for the magnificent Lions).
    2. The Bok coach knows as much about coaching as I do, ie SFA. This means that at the top level there is going to be much disappointment until he gets replaced by Ackermann; which given his racial background won't be any time soon.
    The torpedo likes this.
  3. KevinO Ken Catchpole (46)

    Likes Received:
    1,011
    I think SA rugby is in a dangerous place, while the Government is being very vocal they will never return to their best.

    1. Quota system, it's a reverse apartheid and needs to be stopped. If not the Boks should once again be banned from World rugby.

    2. RWC bid is not supported by the Government, their is a danger to all of World Rugby at the moment.

    3. While I love watching a good Boks pack destroy scrums all game long. I am not happy watching a side play poorly because they are not allowed to pick the best 15 players in the starting line up.

    I think they are in real trouble in the next month, might be some shock results to most people but I only expect them to win over Italy and the BaaBaas and lose to England and Wales.
    Ruggo likes this.
  4. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

    Likes Received:
    10,842
    According to my Saffa mate, There are some POC players coming through the academies and in the high schoools that are there on merit rather than as part of a quota.

    Just going to take a couple or 5 years for those young men to work their way up the ranks along the pathway to Bokke.

    In the meantime, Bokke opposition should make hay while the sun shines.

    I don't have any intel on the Coaching pathway for Coaches of Colour. Pointless trying to address the wrongs of previous years by just developing players. SARU should also be working on developing Coaches, Referees and Administrators from non-European backgrounds.
    PaarlBok likes this.
  5. PaarlBok Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    1,271
    Your Saffer mate is right. SA top schools (Paarl Boys High, PRG, Grey High) have 50% PoC on merit in their teams.

    I have been a hectic opponent of qoutas, but have change my opinion after having first hand experience.

    Look at our cricket. If we haven't had this system, no way we would have discover players like Temba Bavuma, Kagiso Rabada & Tabraiz Shamsi
  6. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

    Likes Received:
    3,546
  7. PaarlBok Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    1,271
    SA Rugby is going to places. ;)
  8. waiopehu oldboy David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,516
  9. dru Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,943
    The future of African rugby is peachy.





    A couple of observations:

    There is no aparent issue with PoC or quotas at school rugby, or coming out of it to the famous Craven Week - u18 Provincial Union rep demonstration comp.

    Rugby playing numbers in South Afica are second only to England and can only get stronger as the natural quantity of PoC increases through youth rugby.

    Similar to Fiji, rugby offers a fantastic career path to those with ability - must be tempting within the admittedly large areas of low income.

    The Coetze style of rugby is not natural to South Africans. Must be "coached in" later and therefore can be changed. These kids show expressive, entertaining rugby skills.

    YES, there are counters in poverty, the RSA economy, innappropriate and inopportune political interferance at every level of the professional game and the Provincial Unions. This leads to the chicken runner phenomenon and a bleeding of talent. And possibly a supression of white skilled athletes and administration. But it can be overcome through a simple numbers game and the quality of talent building at the grass roots.

    Like Fiji, probably Saffers could take joy in the successes of their ex-pats.

    Issues around the National coach are easily enough overcome. In the medium term anyway. Coetze is an error. And the PoC quota thing dissappears as early as before the next RWC if ONLY the young talent is held with a racial break up that roughly equates what already exists in youth rugby.

    Way too early to be talking the death of African rugby. Changes happening certainly, some of it really poor, but more than enough good to be excited with the future.
    PaarlBok likes this.
  10. Highlander35 Paul McLean (56)

    Likes Received:
    2,795
    Via Reddit

    [IMG]

    Not that I believe it, it was just funny.
    mst likes this.
  11. Dan54 John Thornett (49)

    Likes Received:
    2,625
    Am I allowed to remind everyone that it was just a year ago that the Boks lost to Japan, and then caused All Blacks all kinds of problems in WC Semi a few weeks later? Look I know it looks grim, but I refuse to believe that South African rugby will improve. Maybe I just hopeful, but the Boks are too much of the history of rugby in my world for me to even consider they won't be a force in rugby for years to come!
  12. PaarlBok Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    1,271
    Dru
    SA Schoolboy rugby is as strong as its ever been and nothing will change here.

    The biggest challenge is between schoolboy and u20. The way we provincial contracting cause an upside down salary to players.

    The best talented schoolboy players are contracted around R80,000 per month. After two years they have to move elsewhere to get close to that salary.

    Compare this to other countries where the schoolboys first have to play a few years to get a contract and its not difficult to understand.

    It is obvious that Heyneke Meyer haven't left the new coach with anything. He work around old age homers, never planned for the future after his WC tenor.

    AC should have build his team around the form players in SA mostly Lions. Whiteley should have been the captain from the start. We failed miseraly and built around his Stormers has beens like Vermeulen, Flou exct.

    He is close to get there, the lesson you only learn from losing.

    Hopefull next year he'll get there, take a year of losses and move forward.

    Like in all sports it goes in cycles. No pain mean no gain.

    Lots of pain still to come.
    mst and dru like this.
  13. PaarlBok Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    1,271
    At the moment most Saffers feel the time is right to remove the Springbok emblem from rugby. Most of them are short sighted and don't understand the way sport works.
  14. dru Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,943
    OK. I have tried but after re-drafting a response to that first sentence five times I find myself completely incapable of responding in the absence of inappropriate invective. Let do just this one. "WTF?"

    I'm going to roll this concept around in my head for a while. And get off my horse. Change is a good thing, often. Burning the books, not so much.
  15. waiopehu oldboy David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,516
    mst likes this.
  16. dru Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,943
    Ackerman is obvious. After that Morais. Bring back Jake maybe.

    The coach doesnt have to be black, but were they half way successful that would be icing on the cake. Success has been missed so without cake forget the icing.

    I'm still reeling from suggestions that the Boka want the Springbok emblem removed?
  17. waiopehu oldboy David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Everything I've seen recently suggests that if AC goes he'll be replaced by another "POC" regardless of whether they're the best person for the job.
  18. dru Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,943
    WoB is that fan chatter or from SARU? For the life of me though, there are not too many proven PoC coaches left are there?

    I do note that as SARU got control of the Kings black staff were seemingly shunted in irrespective of CV, background or proven history.
  19. Blue Mark Ella (57)

    Likes Received:
    3,605
    So a few people on planetrugby and facebook want to remove the emblem and you think this resembles "most fans"?

    This is simply not based on fact.

    People are upset, and with reason but the crazy ramblings of a few people on social media is not representative of the supporter base.

    Most people want to see the boks given a chance and SARU is just not giving them every opportunity to perform through broken structures and poor personnel decisions.

    Here's a tip. Close your facebook account and don't read Planetrugby.
    dru likes this.
  20. dru Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,943
    Thanks Blue. While I really love PaarlBoks input, I kinda needed that to be put into perspective.

Share This Page