Argentina v Australia, Mendoza 4/10/14

[Quick Hands]

Who is offering odds on Pocock even getting back to test rugby?

For the misty eyed true believers, it's a fait accompli

 

[Scrubber2050]

For the misty eyed true believers, it's a fait accompli

Have my doubts, but will be very happy to have him back at his best. Just wanna see him get throught some rugby matches uninjured. Am now saving up to purchase a small truckload of tape for Poey to wear on the knee

 

[maxdacat]

L - J - L - J - L - L - J.

Thanks for explaining this concept in a very simple way!

 

[barbarian]

Jonathan Kaplan comments on the game and Owens, interesting reading:

Argentina beat Australia 21 – 17 after being down 0 – 14. The worked hard for this win, and worked hard for each other in the fixture. Their carry was excellent and seemed to get rewards when they were in the Aus half. Their tries were well constructed and I am really happy for them that they have finally won a game. Hopefully they will become even more competitive in the years to come and win an away game or 2. Aus will bemoan the fact that they let slip a biggish lead, but the real story will perhaps be the 3 yellow cards that they received on match day.

Last week I was singing Nigel Owens praises after the match at Newlands. He has really shot to the fore after the 2011 RWC in NZ but I thought he was poor on Saturday. He was strangely hesitant in his decision making, once even asking the assistant referee whether there was hands in after he penalized Aus and had pulled his cards out already. He then put the cards back in his pocket. What was the point?

Not so lucky was Aus 9 Nick Phipps who got a card for a brilliant piece of play where he was the tackler and didn’t infringe at all. What should have been a turnover to Australia resulted in a yellow card which was a disaster for Aus who then conceded a penalty and a try in his absence. Not great!! They would have been spitting mad as that decision had huge consequences for this test match. Towards the end of the fixture, with the game still in the balance, the ref stopped the game when Hooper attempted a charge down, was airborne and in the process fell on top of Sanchez, the kicker. He was also carded (incorrectly, as there was little he could do once he was airborne). Argentina converted the penalty and wound the clock down to record a historical moment for them and the tournament.

My opinion of Nigel hasn’t changed. To say he was poor would be an understatement, but I know from personal experience that we all have these days (I had my fair share), and he will bounce back. I do feel for the wallabies though and I thought they deserved better.

http://ratetheref.co.za/2014/10/06/kaplans-comments-rugby-championship-round-6/

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for posting that baa.

Crikey - those are damning comments.

But it's good to see reports like that from an ex-elite referee who speaks his mind and are not qualified to spare the feelings of the bloke he is criticising - and paying no regard to what the refereeing powers-that-be think about his making such remarks, because he can do so now.

Usually the only such comments we have heard in the past have been those from Super Rugby or IRB referee honchos - and they have been too vanilla.

Keep them coming Kappie.

As for the effect of Owens' performance on the Wallabies' loss - what goes around comes around: Oz can't complain about TRC in 2014.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Thats a top site and Kaplan writes very well. No punches were pulled.
We agree re the phipps binning but not re the hooper one - but I bow to his vast experience.

 

[Lee Grant]

Yeah the Hooper carding didn't look right because of the law of physics.

They used to have this problem in the NFL/AFL when I first starting working in the USA way back in the day before the merge.

People were piling into the kicker after the attempted punt or field goal attempt. They couldn't pull out in mid-air.

They changed the rules to, in effect, if you touched the kicker without touching the ball on the charge it was a personal foul, or some such, and that's a huge penalty in their game on fourth down.

That's why you see the blocker now attempting to block across the line of the kick - or two in a crossing pattern so they don't collide. They wont touch the kicker.

If they don't want a kicker in rugby damaged after punting the ball you could make such a law, or better, just an interpretation of the existing law. Another could be that a player who turns his back on the kick, as Hooper did, can't touch the kicker regardless of if he touches the ball or not.

Whatever - but at least referees need clarification on what the existing law is.

Incidentally Hooper didn't get carded for that act but because it was one team penalty too many (though others have probably discussed that).
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[Inside Shoulder]

Incidentally Hooper didn't get carded for that act but because it was one team penalty too many (though others have probably discussed that).
.

Seriously?

Repeated infringements by the team. When different players of the same team repeatedly commit the same offence, the referee must decide whether or not this amounts to repeated infringement. If it does, the referee gives a general warning to the team and if they then repeat the offence, the referee cautions and temporarily suspends the guilty player(s). If a player of that same team then repeats the offence the referee sends off the guilty player(s).

 

[Lee Grant]

I think what I wrote was what Owens said, or my interpretation of what he said.

But I was traumatised at the time.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think what I wrote was what Owens said, or my interpretation of what he said.

But I was traumatised at the time.
.

Yeah, Owens definitely made comments along those lines. It seemed to me that it wasn't entirely for repeated infringements but he decided that the previous incidents pushed Hooper's late hit into yellow card territory.

As for Hooper's yellow card, I don't have a huge problem with it. It's a penalty at the bare minimum and given how much we'd been infringing in the minutes preceeding it, I'm ok with Owens losing his patience and giving a yellow card.

It is entirely correct that Hooper can't change direction in the air, but he has also has a duty of care not to put a late hit on the kicker. Just because there was no malice involved doesn't make the hit any less late or dangerous. If your actions to attempt a charge down are likely to result in a late hit then you can always not attempt the charge down.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Kaplan says Owens was wrong - but he thinks it was for the tackle.
Owens said something while I was swearing at him which suggests it was for repeat infringements.
The laws say a player can only be carded for repeat infringements that are the same infringement.
All of that adds up to: Owens had a barry

 

[Quick Hands]

It certainly wasn't Owen's happiest game, but the loss is down to the players.

 

[Pfitzy]

Fuck Kaplan. This is the guy who wouldn't card McCaw for blatant professional fouls.

 

[tragic]

Sorry Eddie no deal. Stick to Japan, the idea didn't work a decade ago with the best 7 and back up I have seen.

Not so sure. Smith and Waugh were both classic scavenging 7's and there was very little point of difference. Hooper and Pocock are both very different players - Hooper has a stronger running and linking game where Pocock is (or was) stronger over the ball and a better scavenger. (and has at times been used as a line out jumper) Their games are more complementary, and often balance is as important as individual skills.
Not saying I agree with the suggestion but its a very different combination and I wouldn't necessarily discount it based on previous experience with two very similar 7's.

EDIT - oops - just noticed KOB beat me to it, only 3 days ago!!

 

[tragic]

I've read that Australians are considered to be worse in the whining department than the Soap Dodgers.

We're also known for calling a spade a spade, and lets face it Owens had a bloody howler!!

 

[I like to watch]

Fuck Kaplan. This is the guy who wouldn't card McCaw for blatant professional fouls.

What about the gazillion games he fucked up when refereeing the Tahs?
The prick should shut the fuck up and get a real job,instead of sticking it to blokes who do a better job than he ever did.

 

[Bairdy]

It certainly wasn't Owen's happiest game, but the loss is down to the players.

Agreed. At the end of the day, the players can only control what they do, and not the external factors e.g. the refereeing and laser

 

[Gnostic]

We're also known for calling a spade a spade, and lets face it Owens had a bloody howler!!

I don't think so, the only real mistake he made was the non-reversal of the Folau yellow card penalty.

Phipps was offside as the Argies had two players bind to him and blow past. They missed cleaning him out but the fact remains he was from that point offside and had to retire and come through the gate. I have to be consistent as it has been a long time sore point for me in the play of the All Blacks, that they routinely get away with this sort of play.

The Hooper incident was spot on and cannot be argued and indeed players were regularly penalised for jumping on a trajectory that would see them collide with another in the act of kicking the ball. It is dangerous play.

 

[Braveheart81]

Wasn't Phipps the tackler though so he didn't need to come through the gate?

 

[boyo]

Wasn't Phipps the tackler though so he didn't need to come through the gate?

The tackler may be beaten by the ruck, and when a ruck is formed there's an offside line, and all players joining a ruck must enter through the gate.