Aussie Player Exodus

[wamberal]

The simple truth is that there are never simple answers to complex problems. We are where we are as a code because of 100 years of decisions, indecision, prejudice, stupidity, bad luck, the rise of indigenous codes specifically designed and run for local tastes, and so on and bloody on.

I have said it so often before that it makes me tired to say it again. If all stakeholders are prepared to make sacrifices and work cooperatively in pursuit of the bigger picture than their own little dung-heap we might survive.

If not we will end up as a minor sport again, like field hockey. We were down there in the fifties, and probably in the thirties. (My memory does not extend that far back).

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I don't work for RA. I'm an interested punter like everyone else.

A strategic vision needs some basis in reality. Everything I say or suggest or critique is based on my understanding of what is happening and what is possible.

It's not about being a traditionalist. I would say a far more traditionalist view is thinking that any kid attending a GPS school is a rugby union player first and foremost and if they end up in league they've been lost to the game and that was rugby unions mistake.

If you actually look at the history of a lot of these kids, it's very clear they're not just a rugby union player who has then been poached from his rugby union private school to play league. In plenty of cases they're only at the school due to their relationship with their rugby league club who is making it possible.

There's then suggestions that the schools should ban any kids who play league yet that ignores the fact that the schools are happy to accept these players to go to their school with the full knowledge of the league relationship. The school benefits by having a good sportsperson on their books.

I also question where some of your opinions come from. You said the other day that the QRU was doing huge things with investment in grassroots rugby whilst NSWRU is doing nothing. You seem to view GRR as the saviour of Australian rugby. Most of these things seem based on some gut feel without any actual analysis of what is happening etc.

No I don't think NSW is doing nothing BH and you have chosen literary licence to misquote me as only talked about where I see failures at pro level and not good performance there, as certainly acknowledge grass roots investment but need investments at all levels however I was only commenting on pro game which helps build support at grass roots level, but I digress.

No GRR is not the magic silver bullet and yes comes with risks but equally comes with opportunity to have some more investment in the game and region at much less risk in terms of funding allocation as self funded. How many other pro competitions prepared to invest in rugby at the region at zero cost to RA or NSWRU do you know. If you can answer that you might go some way to understand why I am pro GRR. So what you think every day some rich benefactors are prepared to throw money in the ring and invest in the region. Might want to take your own reality check on that.

You also seem to miss my point is a lot of talented kids like ones mentioned are not just choosing league clubs because they played league as well as union but also because they see the coaching and professional development in league as better as another key factor which was the whole point of my argument if you look at my original post. You seem to dismiss one argument by saying only reason is because they prefer league which pretty baseless and silly imo to think that is the only reason. But I digress.

Yes you seem to me to believe we only need change around the edges - I guess that is where we choose to differ. Strategic vision based on reality. Well reality is 1) one of the reasons kids are choosing league over union is they see better professional development and pathways and 2) GRR is a self funded competition that is prepared to invest in the region so surely Oz should be seeking to get a share of those self funding dollars at no risk to RA or other states super rugby funding. Care to point out where there are not any realities in that as pretty grounded in some realities you should be able to understand.

Time to take those "she will be right" glasses off mate...or at least look at wider arguments beyond your own narrow views of the world on how things are. All the best BH.

 

[jauzy19]

Sefa Naivalu will join french club Stade Français after the RWC.

 

[Dctarget]

Sefa Naivalu will join french club Stade Français after the RWC.

Think it was assumed that he'd head north after this season. I don't think anyone expected to him stay at the Reds.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Interesting details on how much you can make in England
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/23/world-cup-premiership-world-cup-insurance-regulations

The initial dispute centred on World Rugby’s regulation 23, which previously stated clubs are compensated by unions for injuries picked up on international duty for players who earn £225,000 or less a year. Anything more than that was paid by the clubs.
World Rugby had initially agreed to increase the threshold to £350,000 but PRL wanted no limit and requested it be removed on the basis there are 60 non-English internationals in the Premiership earning £225,000 or above and 25 on £350,000 or above. World Rugby has now agreed to raise that threshold to £500,000 as of 1 July, meaning PRL has softened its stance.

 

[Rebels3]

Interesting details on how much you can make in England
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/23/world-cup-premiership-world-cup-insurance-regulations

It also shows the strength that we are up against with the NRL. There would be 6/7 players per team on more than $420k (£225k). It’s a tough position. France pays more generally than the premiership as well

 

[Quick Hands]

These young leaguies who attend private schools are doing so thanks to scholarships from NRL clubs. I would bet that the vast majority of them would never, ever have been attracted to play our game, simply because of the much greater money, opportunities, and attention from the rival code, from a much earlier age.


We are still, at heart, an amateur game, particularly at the junior and schools level. That is a strength, in some way, but obviously it is a weakness when it comes to winning talent quests.

A lot of these kids come from relatively deprived backgrounds. They and their families find the money from league very attractive.

In some cases perhaps, but mostly parents are aspirational for their kids and send them to the school which they believe will provide a good education. For example Laurie Daley sent his boy to Joeys, Blocker Roach sent his boys to Riverview. I’d suggest that there are far more people like this than impoverished boys funded by league clubs at GPS schools.

I think too many people assume that only rugby affiliated parents choose to send their kids to schools which play rugby (I’m not saying that you’re in this category).

 

[upthereds#!]

Potential Overseas team in 2020.....not too shabby

1. G.Holmes 2. TPN 3. Kepu
4. Coleman 5. Skelton
6. Fardy 8. Mcmahon 7. Pocock
9. White 10. Foley 11. Koroibete 12. Kerevi 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 14. Naivalu 15. Beale
16. Hanson 17. Ryan 18. Maafu 19. Arnold 20. Timani 21. Phipps 22. Giteau/Harris 23. Tomane/Morohan

VS at home wallabies (maybe?)
1. Sio 2. Fainga'a 3. Ala'alatoa
4. Rodda 5. Tui
6. Jones 8. Naisarani 7. Hoops
9. Genia 10. Quade 11. Petaia 12. To'omua 13. Kuridrani 14. Maddocks 15. DHP
16. Uelese 17. Slipper 18. Tupou 19. Phillips 20. Hanigan 21. Dempsey 22. Gordon 23. Banks

 

[Adam84]

Overseas frontrow have certainly hit retirement age..

Out of that list, Kerevi is the only irreplaceable one, followed by Beale.
The rest would be good for depth/experience but not necessarily starting XV.

 

[Rebels3]

Hanson I think would be a shoe in for the wallabies if he stayed around, has been brilliant for Gloucester this season

 

[wamberal]

I would back the young guns to go through the deserters like a packet of salts.

 

[RebelYell]

Hanson I think would be a shoe in for the wallabies if he stayed around, has been brilliant for Gloucester this season

Really poorly treated by Australian Rugby. Geez we could use him now.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Hanson I think would be a shoe in for the wallabies if he stayed around, has been brilliant for Gloucester this season

Great hooker, repeatedly got shafted on Aus selection, it's surprising he took so long to go OS.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm still confused as to when Chibba Hanson should have been selected a lot more to play for the Wallabies.

He had the misfortune to be behind Moore and Polota-Nau for most of his career and rightfully so.

I'm pretty sure he was injured when Charles and Mann-Rea debuted.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Really poorly treated by Australian Rugby. Geez we could use him now.

He's injured at the moment! Out for the season

 

[RebelYell]

I'm still confused as to when Chibba Hanson should have been selected a lot more to play for the Wallabies.

He had the misfortune to be behind Moore and Polota-Nau for most of his career and rightfully so.

I'm pretty sure he was injured when Charles and Mann-Rea debuted.

Difference between selected more and dicked around by the Rebels/RA after the Force were axed and he was deemed surplus to requirements. But should have played ahead of Saia a bit IMO.

 

[upthereds#!]

Overseas frontrow have certainly hit retirement age..

Out of that list, Kerevi is the only irreplaceable one, followed by Beale.
The rest would be good for depth/experience but not necessarily starting XV.

Solid locks, nice backrow depth, but basically all of the back depth. Almost every position between 24 - 31 would be taken by an overseas player. Alot of young guys will either get promoted early, or journey given chances in Aus next year. Bit worried about back depth next year. If Beale is overseas, they will definitely use him, but losing Kerevi, oroibete, Naivalu & Folau leaves us desperately light in the backline. Alot of kickers and finishers, not much go forward especially with an injury to petaia or TK

 

[Derpus]

Potential Overseas team in 2020...not too shabby

1. G.Holmes 2. TPN 3. Kepu
4. Coleman 5. Skelton
6. Fardy 8. Mcmahon 7. Pocock
9. White 10. Foley 11. Koroibete 12. Kerevi 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 14. Naivalu 15. Beale
16. Hanson 17. Ryan 18. Maafu 19. Arnold 20. Timani 21. Phipps 22. Giteau/Harris 23. Tomane/Morohan

VS at home wallabies (maybe?)
1. Sio 2. Fainga'a 3. Ala'alatoa
4. Rodda 5. Tui
6. Jones 8. Naisarani 7. Hoops
9. Genia 10. Quade 11. Petaia 12. To'omua 13. Kuridrani 14. Maddocks 15. DHP
16. Uelese 17. Slipper 18. Tupou 19. Phillips 20. Hanigan 21. Dempsey 22. Gordon 23. Banks

Some real talent we are missing out on there.

 

[Rebels3]

The Giteau law needs to be looked at.

I’d love to see the law changed, perhaps to a rolling 4 year period, where if you play in Australia for a minimum 2years over a rolling 4 year period, you are still eligible for the Wallabies. Hopefully this would allow players to head overseas for 2yrs, earn some good coin but remain eligible.

Looking at current players, that would make Skelton, Fardy, McMahon, Hanson, etc. eligible for the up coming World Cup and Kerevi, Coleman, etc. eligible 2 years beyond.

I believe it’d have a positive effect in getting players returning to keep their eligibility alive for a period of time but not curtailing their ability to build a healthy retirement fund. The likes of Liam Gill, might of thought, I’ll head to France for two years while I’m not been looked at. If I perform well there I can still get picked but I’ll return in 2 years to keep that dream alive.

It might stop RA spending overs to keep certain individuals and with the situation that Kerevi might leave at seasons end, you could have the situation another big name might be looking to return to retain their eligibility status, keeping the fans hopes high and fitting the superstar sized hole he would leave.

Other benefits would be players experiencing different rugby skills and cultures to make them more rounded players. Plus the wallabies performing better would drive hopefully more revenue to go around.

 

[Adam84]

I’m happy with where it stands now...

Those players knew when they left they were giving up their wallaby honours, so clearly wearing the jersey wasn’t as important as the money they could earn. On the flip side, those who stayed did so because the jersey means something to them and they were willing to make sacrifices for it.

Changing of the rule opens the flood gates for even more players to leave.