Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010

[I like to watch]

Lindommer said on another thread that Roach was going to Canberra.

Is this true? I thought he was a Gordon junior. Surely the Tahs would have made him an offer if he was going to play next year? Does anyone besides Lee rate him?

I think it fair to say he was universally acknowledged as deserving his spot in the schoolboys side.
That doesn't happen in most positions. Think this is his second year in this side as well. He can play the game & is a good recruit for the Brumbies

 

[Lee Grant]

Who has been the stand out Australian Schoolboy in the past two games? I have heard nothing but positive about Curtis Browning and he still has another year to go. Great to hear new talent

I'd say 8. Luani, 2. Roach, 4. Browning, 3. Millar and more or less in that order. It doesn't mean a lot though because of the standard of the opponent and the type of game played. Performance against the Kiwis will be the true test of the ability of individual players, but I would be surprised if the players mentioned were not far from being he best Aussies on the park.

I note that the two wingers Crook and CFS are fine players but they got very little ball in the two games, let alone good ball.

Also is there anyone who could play S15 next year?

We are talking about backs only then. Crook would be the likeliest IMO but a few Brumbies wingers would have to be injured for that to happen.

You should start with the players that have S15 academy contracts for next season. Is there a list?

You've got to be kidding. You are lucky that somebody in the know like Lindommer at West Harbour is a forum member and let's us know about Luani. Then there's yourself about McCallum. Now and then you get something in a local paper about a local boy who "has been signed by the Brumbies" for example. When you see the professional list his name isn't there and it was a contract for the amateur academy after all.

It's all in-house information and you're lucky if you get to know the members of the pro academy before Super rugby starts. In 2007 the only way you could find out who was in the Tahs pro academy was if you got the Tahs guide to the season.

End of rant.

 

[Rothschild]

You should start with the players that have S15 academy contracts for next season. Is there a list?

Being new I yield to my far more learned commentators.
I can say that the ARU has basically put the kybosh on signing of on Academy deals for school leavers.
It appears they have heeded all the rantings for the past few years and are conceding that the rapid promotion of schoolboys to the professinal ranks does not and will not work except in exceptional circumstances. I am led to believe that the QRU has approved 8 new Academy deals for next year and only one is a school leaver, the remainder are from club ranks.
Any current schoolboy who has managed to gain an academy deal let alone a pro academy deal as I understand Crook has is very lucky indeed. I also believe there is a winger from one of the NSW school teams who has been signed off by the TAHS as well so including Roach that makes four academy deals from the current crop. There may be more but there certainly isn't any noise being made about it.

 

[FTS]

Aus Schools fullback Lewis Holland has signed with the Brumbies academy for 2011.

 

[RugbyReg]

Being new I yield to my far more learned commentators.
I can say that the ARU has basically put the kybosh on signing of on Academy deals for school leavers.
It appears they have heeded all the rantings for the past few years and are conceding that the rapid promotion of schoolboys to the professinal ranks does not and will not work except in exceptional circumstances. I am led to believe that the QRU has approved 8 new Academy deals for next year and only one is a school leaver, the remainder are from club ranks.
Any current schoolboy who has managed to gain an academy deal let alone a pro academy deal as I understand Crook has is very lucky indeed. I also believe there is a winger from one of the NSW school teams who has been signed off by the TAHS as well so including Roach that makes four academy deals from the current crop. There may be more but there certainly isn't any noise being made about it.

That seems to be Link driven. He wanted greater experience in the Academy, not so much a youth squad (as this year's was) predicting the importance of depth next year. This year (2010) he was forced to bring in at least two players (Tim Walsh and Radike Samo) from outside the academy because he didn't want/believe he could rely on youth.

 

[supporter]

Aus Schools fullback Lewis Holland has signed with the Brumbies academy for 2011.

-------------

Good to hear that Lewis Holland signed with the Brumbies.

 

[qwerty51]

We are talking about backs only then. Crook would be the likeliest IMO but a few Brumbies wingers would have to be injured for that to happen.

Why? The only two from last year that played Super rugby were fowards; Jones and Hooper. I realise the current crop aren't as talented as those two but I wouldn't rule anyone out.

 

[New Fan]

Ted Postal came off the bench for the force in at least one game.

 

[NorthernSon]

Hmm,
Disappointing news on Luani as he was indeed the outstanding No8 at Schoolboy level and was a key to Newington Colleges premeirship.
On Tour he should now be confined to peeling oranges until the NZ game as he will be essential to the team.

Jed Holloway from Waverly did impress for Australia A and at Nationals and is deserving to start at 8 in the preliminary matches.

Good to see Luke Keary get a ticket and he should have been drafted ahead of others based on recent form.

Very surprised about the Michael Wells selection and can only assume that Manu and the ARU wanted a few more NTS players on the plane, the lad was very promising at in 2009 at 16 but took a heavy head knock prior the U/16 Nationals that ruled him out. He was indeed very tentative in physical matches against Newington, Shore, Kings and Joeys and seems to have lost his way seagulling which was a shame.

 

[Lee Grant]

Why? The only two from last year that played Super rugby were fowards; Jones and Hooper. I realise the current crop aren't as talented as those two but I wouldn't rule anyone out.

Yes I did know that and even said 12 months ago that Jones could get a S14 contract in 2010 to keep him away from other Super teams because everybody would want him, he was so outstanding at Schools rugby in 2009. And if he got a S14 contract there was also a chance he would get on the park and so he did for a little while. I didn't pick Hooper to play in 2010 and neither would anybody else have because he had a shoulder reconstruction in Y12.

Hooker Roach and THP Millar are front rowers and no coach should use them for Super rugby until they have had proper professional physical conditioning and that wont be by next year. You never know though: Friend doesn't seem to worry too much about that kind of thing and if Roach is going to the Brumbies who knows?

When George Smith got injured Friend started the aforementioned Hooper who wasn't fit enough to be included on the Oz Schools EOYT a few months before as he hadn't recovered from his operation; yet he had Colby Fainga'a available - and he 9 months older, no shoulder reconstruction and with a full year of physical preparation under his belt.

The only other forward good enough IMO is Luani and he will be playing in the Toyota Cup.

That's why. And unlike you I would rule the other forwards out: Browning is 16 and the others aren't good enough to be thought about until they have played senior rugby.

 

[pitbull]

hmmm....i dont think the "physical conditioning" required will keep those two from playing in the super15 comp next year. Luani contrasts your theory, as he is one of the smallest forwards and also one of the weaker players statically (i.e. in the gym), yet you think he will be ready next year (and im inclined to agree). This years forward pack is quite impressive and it wouldn't shock me to see one or two of the names next year.

 

[Thin Thighs]

The grown up world of hardened professionals in S15 is completely different to Schoolboy rugby. IMHO regardless of how good (or big/strong comparatively speaking) a schoolboy player is, they need a year or two to complete their physical and mental development as a journeyman before they are ready for the S15 arena.

Jonah Lomu and Gilbert Beale are prime examples of Schoolboy stars who were rushed into the real world too soon. In both instances the wise and cunning heads made both players look very ordinary not long after their debuts in the big league, and again in both cases they needed some time in the "wilderness" to develop the requisite skills before they returned to the showcase.

We all know how Jonah turned out, and Gilbert is now showing all the attributes of a genuine gamebreaker at the top level. Seemed to do them a world of good to be humbled.

Morale of the story is that a couple of years as an apprentice does no one any harm.

 

[Lee Grant]

hmmm....i dont think the "physical conditioning" required will keep those two from playing in the super15 comp next year. Luani contrasts your theory, as he is one of the smallest forwards and also one of the weaker players statically (i.e. in the gym), yet you think he will be ready next year (and im inclined to agree). This years forward pack is quite impressive and it wouldn't shock me to see one or two of the names next year.

Well, I meant Luani was the only another one to be considered because the others weren't good enough, not that he should play in the S15. And in the case of Browning: he will be still in school.

Who are the one or two forwards you are thinking about playing Super rugby next year?

Thin Thighs
You are exactly right.

 

[baldingwingforward]

Very surprised about the Michael Wells selection and can only assume that Manu and the ARU wanted a few more NTS players on the plane, the lad was very promising at in 2009 at 16 but took a heavy head knock prior the U/16 Nationals that ruled him out. He was indeed very tentative in physical matches against Newington, Shore, Kings and Joeys and seems to have lost his way seagulling which was a shame.

Are you serious....Wells can indeed consider himself fortunate to be on the plane but either you didn't watch those games you have mentioned above or you weren't paying much attention. Some of the tackles he made (in a relatively weak Riverview team) were massive. His hit on Killingworth in the Kings game was worth the price of admission in itself! and Nathaniel Deans won't forget getting run over by him in the Joeys game! He might seagull a little but he is definitely not tentative in the physical matches... With another off season of weights under his belt he will be a major threat next season.

 

[no_name12]

next year will be a completely different year, many kids hitting the off season. michael wells might be having a good end to the season so he might have to count himself lucky getting picked from the tour out of presidents. could all change next year

 

[Spewn]

The grown up world of hardened professionals in S15 is completely different to Schoolboy rugby. IMHO regardless of how good (or big/strong comparatively speaking) a schoolboy player is, they need a year or two to complete their physical and mental development as a journeyman before they are ready for the S15 arena.

Jonah Lomu and Gilbert Beale are prime examples of Schoolboy stars who were rushed into the real world too soon. In both instances the wise and cunning heads made both players look very ordinary not long after their debuts in the big league, and again in both cases they needed some time in the "wilderness" to develop the requisite skills before they returned to the showcase.

We all know how Jonah turned out, and Gilbert is now showing all the attributes of a genuine gamebreaker at the top level. Seemed to do them a world of good to be humbled.

Morale of the story is that a couple of years as an apprentice does no one any harm.

Spot on Thin Thighs. You will see some of the so-called star schoolboy players founder whereas others who did not get a gong come through. (so long as the club coaches don't get blinded by a lengthy CV.

PS Wells was very lucky. But good luck to him.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Agree with the observation that top School boy CV is no guarantee to future success.

Regarding Wells and his "luck" to make the team. Without disrespecting any player in the team, they should all consider themselves lucky to have made the team. In nearly all cases there is another player who is equally deserving of selection in the team, and they have missed out due to a bad game or being on the incorrect side of an unfortunate bounce in front of the selecters at whatever level, or an injury.

The awesome players who do not have another young man in a close contest for their position should also consider themselves lucky that they are injury free, or were injury free during the selection trials. With the amount of tough games thes young men are playing, it doesn't take much to get an injury that rules you out of contention for Rep selection.

Notwithstanding all these young Men in Gold deserve our congratulations on their selection, and the best wishes of all the Jarse's go to them to achieve their full potential on the tour.

If the bloody Darkness descends upon them, then so be it. As long as they have given their absolute all for the Goldness to overcome the forces of Darkness, we can not ask for any more.

 

[Lee Grant]

We have this interest in which schools players are likely to be Super players every year. Only the names of the boys change. It will be the same next year and the year after that; and so on.


It's a pleasant thing to talk about. Then we get the realistic talk of Thin Thighs and Big Bum every year and what they say was, is, and will always be true.


The other thing we get every year is certitude that a schoolboy player is so good he will play Super rugby the following year. These predictions are almost invariably wrong, as they should be, but now and then when there is a list of injuries to a team and it happens. Sometimes there is only one injury and the coach and his recruiters haven't been successful in recruiting a seasoned player as back up for the position.


Sometimes we saw a 17 y.o. JOC (James O'Connor) or 18 y.o. Hooper (fresh from a shoulder reconstruction) starting in Super rugby and it was because of poor recruitment. If challenged the coaches would raise their hands in protest that they didn't have the pool of good players to pick older guys from, and, because of the failure of the ARC financially, there is a modicum of truth in that.


I think the major reason why good schools players are picked in Super squads, and in pro academies, is to warehouse them for the future so that no other outfit can get at them. Thus Luke Jones got a full contract from the Force in 2010 and IMO got awarded a couple of runs on the park in an effort to persuade him to not exercise his option to play elsewhere in 2011.


In the case of Michael Hooper, Friend had only he and Colby Fainga'a, both academy players at the beginning of the 2010 S14, in his stable to cover George Smith because Salvi had gone. I thought his not having a senior 7 as a backup for Smith, and if he didn't, not using the older Fainga'a (who, unlike Hooper, had a full year of conditioning), were both reprehensible.


I'm reading some indications that Link McKenzie is thinking differently these days. He used Beale too early in 2007, but it looks like he wants to get an older professional academy for the Reds. This is good, because once you are in a pro academy you are the next cab off the rank if there are a couple of injuries to the contracted players or sometimes only one.


I don't think Hickey at the Tahs would shove players out before their time and I'm certain that Macqueen won't.


End of today's rant.

 

[Spewn]

I think Thin Thighs, Hugh and Lee have said it all. Close the thread now?

 

[en_force_er]

I think Thin Thighs, Hugh and Lee have said it all. Close the thread now?

I'm starting to think you don't really understand forums.