Bulls V Force RD 3

[Forcefield]

Him and Ged Robinson need some of the same after-school tuition.

Nathan Charles was an excellent line-out thrower in 2012.

See here: http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/06/28/busting-myths-around-australias-hardworking-or-not-hookers/

I don't really understand why his throwing hasn't been crash hot except that losing Nathan Sharpe cannot be underestimated. I imagine Sharpie would have provided the input to Charles and the team that our current line-out callers aren't. Maybe they aren't practising enough. Maybe they don't work hard enough on the fine details. Whatever it is, last year Nathan Charles was Australia's best line-out thrower.

 

[kiap]

See here: http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/06/28/busting-myths-around-australias-hardworking-or-not-hookers/

"I will look at common myths in relation to backrowers using available stats for the Super Rugby season to date. Most stats are from Fox Fantasy statistics."​

Jeez, I dunno mate..... Also:

"Myth: Hanson is underrated? Busted. He has neither the workrate of Moore nor the impact of TPN, and his throw is just as inaccurate."​

To be fair, I reckon TPN is a worse thrower and that article is Busted. But it's not giving much of a boost to Hanson.

 

[eastman]

I think some of you force fans are being a bit optimistic- the force did not play well at all and basically relied on their defence the entire game. I think the force would be one of the favourites to take home the spoon.

 

[wamberal]

I think some of you force fans are being a bit optimistic- the force did not play well at all and basically relied on their defence the entire game. I think the force would be one of the favourites to take home the spoon.

The Force did pretty well against a strong Bulls team. Play that game in Perth with an Australian referee, and see what you think. I thought some of the refereeing of the Force defence against the Bulls rolling mauls was just plain wrong.


Defence is the first step to winning a game.

 

[eastman]

I'm not denying their defence was excellent apart from the 2 breaks down Cummins wing (One luckily was a forward pass) which was abysmal. Their attack however was extrememly average and their was little cohesion between the players. Can you honestly see the force coming anywhere but last in the Australian conference?

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I would suggest your underplaying the situation........every team in the comp struggle at Loftus. The Force went there under the gun, fielding a team whose flyhalf was about to have his debut.

The bulls aren't ever pushovers and are in solid form as they trounced the stormers last week. No one is saying the force will be a a top 6 team, but they are showing signs and glimpses of a team that could make the top 10. I think they have the cattle to be a good team and I think most force fans would be happy to see them come 9th or 10th if it meant they were building towards something.

In regards to your statement about the only thing good was that they had great defence.....well I may not be some big city lawyer but isn't the saying championships are built on defence?and I am sure everyone can agree

that i would rather see them lose and make it hard for the opposition instead of playing a type of game were they are flogged but manage to get a few good tries on the board.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I'm not denying their defence was excellent apart from the 2 breaks down Cummins wing (One luckily was a forward pass) which was abysmal. Their attack however was extrememly average and their was little cohesion between the players. Can you honestly see the force coming anywhere but last in the Australian conference?

The backline attack had some issues but the need for a punching Outside has been highlighted however the forces forwards were very strong in attack i thought. Against a very powerful balls pack.

 

[No.8]

Anyone think the Force will win a game this year?

 

[I like to watch]

Yes, but I don't know when or how.
Predicting they will be in the game at 65 minutes, plenty of times throughout the year, only to let it slip through their fingers.
Hint, after 10 or so phases, there is more pressure on the ball carrier than the defence,when you continue to pick and drive.

 

[No.8]

The Australian sides really look to be struggling the 1st few rounds - besides the Brumbies...they are looking decent.

 

[Forcefield]

"I will look at common myths in relation to backrowers using available stats for the Super Rugby season to date. Most stats are from Fox Fantasy statistics."​

Jeez, I dunno mate... Also:

"Myth: Hanson is underrated? Busted. He has neither the workrate of Moore nor the impact of TPN, and his throw is just as inaccurate."​

To be fair, I reckon TPN is a worse thrower and that article is Busted. But it's not giving much of a boost to Hanson.

Ok forget Hanson, TPN and Moore for a second. The main statistic I was referring to was the percentage line-out not straight. Sure those stats might not be 100% but for Nathan Charles it matches anecdotally with observations that he rarely ever skewed the throw in last year.

I suppose it does not consider over throws either. But is that a calling/jumping/lifting problem or a throwing problem?

Pretty sure I read somewhere that the Force had one of the most reliable line-outs in 2012.

 

[Shiggins]

Ok forget Hanson, TPN and Moore for a second. The main statistic I was referring to was the percentage line-out not straight. Sure those stats might not be 100% but for Nathan Charles it matches anecdotally with observations that he rarely ever skewed the throw in last year.

I suppose it does not consider over throws either. But is that a calling/jumping/lifting problem or a throwing problem?

Pretty sure I read somewhere that the Force had one of the most reliable line-outs in 2012.

Loosing one of the beat jumpers and organisers in world rugby would hurt. Accompany that with the line out going badly in the first 2 games and your losing confidence.

 

[Sidbarret]

It was fucking horrible. I don't know if it was five years but that was one of the shittest Bulls performances I have watched in a very long time.

The forwards were disjointed. Did nothing to protect the pill. I can make a long list but can't be bothered. We won't make the playoffs like this. Not even close.

It won't happen often but I am far more positive about the Bulls than you it seems.

The way I see it the bulls have fixed a number of systemic errors that have been dogging them over the last couple of seasons.

1- Steyn's tactical kicking is much better than previous season. Previously he only had the high-long punt that stayed the air so long that it gave the defending winger time to get under the ball to counter. This season he has added some variety by going low and hard to get the ball into gaps.

2- Steyn is putting pace onto the ball in attack, dragging the backline forward instead of shoveling static ball down the line.

3- They are clearing past the ball, greatly improving the speed and quality of the ball from the ruck.

4- Their forward runners are working hard on taking the ball at pace.

They ended this game with Mastriet being the only recognised outside back on the pitch and a badly unbalanced backrow, but was an intercept and defencive laps at the line-out away from routing the force.

 

[Sidbarret]

The Force did pretty well against a strong Bulls team. Play that game in Perth with an Australian referee, and see what you think. I thought some of the refereeing of the Force defence against the Bulls rolling mauls was just plain wrong.


Defence is the first step to winning a game.

Your quite right, a stronger ref would have carded the force for having no clue how to legally stopping a maul.

 

[Sidbarret]

While on the subject of referees. Based on their two games in South Africa I think the force are going to struggle with discipline the whole season.

They seem to try and be too clever in a lot of things they do and when they get it wrong (which is often) they get stroppy and start waving their arms around and shouting at the ref.

 

[Blue]

It won't happen often but I am far more positive about the Bulls than you it seems.

The way I see it the bulls have fixed a number of systemic errors that have been dogging them over the last couple of seasons.

1- Steyn's tactical kicking is much better than previous season. Previously he only had the high-long punt that stayed the air so long that it gave the defending winger time to get under the ball to counter. This season he has added some variety by going low and hard to get the ball into gaps.

2- Steyn is putting pace onto the ball in attack, dragging the backline forward instead of shoveling static ball down the line.

3- They are clearing past the ball, greatly improving the speed and quality of the ball from the ruck.

4- Their forward runners are working hard on taking the ball at pace.

They ended this game with Mastriet being the only recognised outside back on the pitch and a badly unbalanced backrow, but was an intercept and defencive laps at the line-out away from routing the force.

I reckon we are about to lose four in a row.

One win on the road will be a good outcome. Blues, Saders, Reds, Brumbies. That's a bloody nightmare.

Blues on a roll, never beat the Saders in NZ, not Reds at Suncorp and Jake knows how to play us and has a better squad than last year.

 

[Bairdy]

Having rewatched the match, I think the gripes with the referee from Force supporters (myself included!) were unjustified. The way the Force defended the maul was illegal and yes I agree we should of been yellow carded at least once.

On the criticism of the referee, the ref, apart from maybe his handling of mauls, was very accurate, and the sealing off in the 70 odd by the force on the attack was just unfortunate. I think why the supporters blame the ref is because the Rebels and Bulls match were there for the taking, but poor discipline by the Force led to momentum shifts in those matches.

One thing is certain though: I'm not as tentative as I was after the Kings game, and the way this Force side is progressing, we should be able to win a few matches this year.

 

[Sidbarret]

Having rewatched the match, I think the gripes with the referee from Force supporters (myself included!) were unjustified. The way the Force defended the maul was illegal and yes I agree we should of been yellow carded at least once.

On the criticism of the referee, the ref, apart from maybe his handling of mauls, was very accurate, and the sealing off in the 70 odd by the force on the attack was just unfortunate. I think why the supporters blame the ref is because the Rebels and Bulls match were there for the taking, but poor discipline by the Force led to momentum shifts in those matches.

One thing is certain though: I'm not as tentative as I was after the Kings game, and the way this Force side is progressing, we should be able to win a few matches this year.

I thought Jafta was excellent, with the only real shocker being the penalty against Alcock to bring the Bulls back to within four. One thing he can improve on though is his habit give a very shrill blast on the whistle every time there is a penalty.

 

[Blue]

Jaffa is the best young ref I have seen in plenty long.

 

[disco]

I watched the game again just to see MMM smash Kirchner & KO those two forwards but I also agree with a couple other posters on here that Alcock is better than Hodgson. Alcock made a huge difference when he came on & Hodgson's hammy may be a blessing in disguise.