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Coaching Options for Qld Rugby

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Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Defence coaches are a waste of money. You can't teach attitude and lack of fear. Tackling ability should be pre-requisite for recruitment. There's no Maroons that can't tackle.


There is a world of difference between 'defence' and 'tackling'.

You can most certainly teach attitude, but better yet you can teach technique and strategy which build confidence and develop attitude.

Lack of fear is a funny one. I know guys who have a distinct lack of fear that are shithouse tacklers. If you have both a lack of fear and solid technique it's great but if it's one or the other, I take the guy with technique any day. In any case, a player who is taught to tackle well, who is confident in their ability will fear the tackle less and less, to the point where they may even relish it.
 

Floggn'

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Defence coaches are a waste of money. You can't teach attitude and lack of fear. Tackling ability should be pre-requisite for recruitment. There's no Maroons that can't tackle.

Blokes running at Thurston have a different opinion.
 

Thinker

Darby Loudon (17)
Every day I seem more resigned that we might not get a qualified/experienced head coach moving forward. Based on Tuckers options at this stage I'd like to see something along the line of

Stiles HC
Knuckles DOR (less hands on, unless required, and mentor/advisor role)
Michael O'Connor Backs Coach
+ a defensive coach

Or the Above with Tatts back as HC.

The defensive coach is an issue. Plenty good ones around, but not in the "pathway" to coach at that level.

As for Turtle's absurd comment you could almost suggest that teams perform much better when they have a specialist (QLD and Wobs a prime example).
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I tend to think that the long term plan might be to have Nic Stiles take over from 2017... It was reported earlier in the year that Nic was in talks with the Waratahs for the head coaching role down there. Then he pulled his application and signed a 3 year deal with the Reds..

So, one theory might be that he was re-signed with the offer to take over the Reds in 2017, this is somewhat supported by the signing of Brad Thorn as an interim forwards coach.

You might ask why not take over in 2016, well perhaps he doesn't feel he is ready and wants to gain more experience as an assistant and head coach in the NRC. Fans can be fickle when it comes to expectations so maybe he wants to ensure he is up to the task. So where does this leave the Reds for 2016, they can't exactly sign a big name coach for just one season, maybe this is why John Connolly as head coach for 2016 is a likely scenario.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
Matt OÇonnor.

He has suddenly become available. I wonder if he is considering a change in climate? He has some history of success (also does come with some criticisms though apparently).
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Matt OÇonnor.

He has suddenly become available. I wonder if he is considering a change in climate? He has some history of success (also does come with some criticisms though apparently).
There's already a story up in Ireland about his heading back to Australia and possibly getting a look in at the Reds:

O’Connor is believed to feature high on the Reds’ list of candidates to replace Graham ahead of the 2016 Super Rugby season and it appears that having learned as much, O’Connor transmitted his interest in the role.

There are other options for O’Connor in Australia aside from that Reds possibility. He is due to head home next week to further explore those options and it would be no surprise to see him bounce back soon.

Not sure how that would go, but it would largely depend on the kind of rugby they want to play in Reds land. At least down under he'll have a fewer games and only one competition to focus on, and won't have to worry as much about juggling his line up because of international duties. The pressures of nearly 30 games really seemed to chap MOC's ass, moreso than other coaches, save the likes of perennial complainers like Richard Cockerill and Steve Diamond.

But the Reds are also getting Brad Thorn, and both he and MOC are fairly well-versed in Leicester Tigers set piece and forwards-focused rugby. So if MOC does end up there, I'd be on the lookout for that. It didn't work in Dublin, but who knows, maybe a basics approach is what the Reds need. Or not.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
I don't know much about him? Anyone care to elaborate.... The timing does seem rather 'fortuitous.'
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
I don't know much about him? Anyone care to elaborate.. The timing does seem rather 'fortuitous.'
About Matt O'Connor? He was a league convert from Australia, played center, had one Wallabies test, played and coached in Japan. Most recently, he was an assistant coach at Brumbies in 2007, and in 2008, he was brought in as a backs coach for the Leicester Tigers when Heyneke Meyer was their head coach. So if you know how Leicester's backs played between 2008-2012, you have a sense of what MOC might bring.

He was appointed coach at Leinster in 2013 when Joe Schmidt left to take over the Ireland job. This coincided with Johnny Sexton leaving for Racing Metro and Isa Nacewa returning to New Zealand, as well as Brian O'Driscoll and Leo Cullen's final years, so MOC was dealing with a team on the down-swing. Leinster was already known for being attacking sorcerers under Schmidt, and what MOC wanted to bring was a water-tight defense. Their defense did improve in 2013, his first year, but their attack started to slow and stutter, and their try count started to drop. They went out in the Heineken Cup quarterfinals to Toulon, but managed to win the Pro 12, beating Glasgow in the finals.

This year, though, everything seemed to go sideways. There was a problem at 10: Kiwi Jimmy Gopperth was his preferred starter for being more trustworthy, but Gopperth rarely brought much incisive attack or creativity. Ian Madigan could bring the flair at 10, but wasn't the most stable player in that position. The Ireland national side, I think it's fair to say, would have liked to have seen Madigan get more time at 10 so he could mature and develop some stability, but instead MOC put Madigan at 12, and had him coming off the bench -- which was strange, because Leinster had a great up-and-coming 12 in Noel Reid who needed seasoning and wasn't getting it. Johnny Sexton is returning to Leinster, so barring injuries Madigan isn't going to start at 10 next year, and it seems like all would have been better served if Madigan either became the regular 12 or got more time at 10 with Reid getting more time at 12.

MOC brought in Ben Te'o from the Rabbitohs to take over Brian O'Driscoll's 13 spot, which was risky. Te'o hadn't played rugby since he was a kid, and had to re-learn a lot about rugby. And then he broke his arm in the first 20 minutes of his first game. By the end of the season he came good, but for the most part MOC used him as a crash ball runner. MOC also brought Kane Douglas north to play lock, but Douglas had an so-so season, and it ended early with him needing surgery on his back.

And that seemed to sum up much of the season -- lots and lots of injuries, including to noted Irish internationals like Cian Healy and Sean O'Brien, which led to MOC having to constantly shuffle his line up. But the problem was he seemed too conservative and too willing to keep trying combinations that didn't yield much but were safe. What made things worse was that he started to complain a lot in the media, about how he couldn't bring in enough foreign players and how the national set-up forced him to rest players when he needed them. That complaint got louder and louder, until finally it was brought up to Joe Schmidt, who simply said it didn't seem to be a problem for the other provincial coaches -- even Pat Lam, who has far fewer resources at Connacht than O'Connor has at Leinster.

The tries dried up, the defense also flagged, the complaints by and about MOC started to increase about mid-season, and Leinster ended up seeming rudderless and having their worst season in about a decade. It's hard to say it was all MOC's fault; retiring flanker Shane Jennings recently made some pointed comments about how the squad needs to re-learn what it took for them to win league and European hardware five years in a row. But it seemed pretty clear MOC wasn't the man to teach them those lessons.

Let's just say he's not leaving on the best of terms and a year early. It seems he may even have brought up his early release to Leinster himself, and was already looking to go back to Australia. Both parties were happy enough to part ways.
 

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
MOC is very much a friend of the players who tries to get them to play what's in front of them. Very little deception, just straight up collision oriented ball that didn't have the type of personnel in Leinster. He might fly better in Queensland.

Meanwhile, the bookies fav for the Leinster job is Robbie Deans. Odd, since I thought Nucifora (effectively responsible for non-commercial aspects of the game in Ireland) and Deans didn't get along. McKenzie is also up there with the bookies although Deans is odds-on.
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
^^^^^
So boiled down to the essentials, you're saying he is RG 2.0?

What Riptide and gel said -- forward-based, collision-heavy game, low risk stuff, not the most exciting. It's almost like MOC would have done better with Munster and Leinster would have done better with Rob Penney when he was around. And yeah, MOC seems to want to get along well with the team, which may work for some teams, and not for others. It's telling that Leinster did their best under two coaches they had a healthy fear of, Cheika and Joe Schmidt.
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
Foley's record as a head coach is hardly brilliant either.

QLD Reds board member 1: "We need to replace RG, because across multiple teams with multiple players at his disposal he has an extremely low win percentage".

QLD Reds board member 2: "Good idea. Let's get Foley, because across multiple teams with multiple players at his disposal he has an extremely low win percentage".

I can't understand the logic.
 

Chris McCracken

Jim Clark (26)
Paul Green at the Cowboys is off contract next year. Maybe they should grab him and put in to be the NRL's second Brisbane team.

They're sending a lot of players to the Rebels, anyway.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
A loss in this round would surely go close to being the straw that breaks the camels back.

The Reds for the Sharks game are almost at full strength (less QC (Quade Cooper)).

The Coach would have to finally take some responsibility if they can't get the chocolates.
 
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