Perth Spirit News

[WorkingClassRugger]

Duncan Chubb is playing for the Rising, he's the only one I can spy. He's probably auditioning for an EPS spot, a bit like Talakai moving up to play for the Queensland sides last season.

I'm not just referring to strictly NRC. Luke Jones, Tom English, Jack Debreszeni etc. a number of others. All from NSW. I'm not against guys playing for their Super Rugby affiliated NRC squad and again I tend to think NSW has one too many squads but I think some overlook that a good deal of the talent filling three of the four others Super Rugby squads which feed directly into the NRC have a significant NSW presence which if they were playing in NSW would mean our teams would be a great deal more competitive.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The reality is that both Brisbane and Sydney provide most of the cattle for the 5 Super Rugby Franchises.

There is little to be gained in splitting hairs or debating which is better at it, or that the Ponies, Rebels or Force would founder without the players from NSW or QLD.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Who cares about where the players are from.

The lowest crowds are in NSW. Therefore NSW has too many teams.

 

[Highlander35]

Tim Metcher (Southern Districts)
Luke Jones (Manly)
Sam Jeffries (Sydney Uni)
Steve Cummins (Eastwood)
Jordy Reid (Manly)
Jack Debreczeni (West Harbour)
Tom English (Sydney Uni)

I count 7 of the 16 allocated Rebels are sydney "developed".

You've then got 4 Queenslanders (Ben Meehan, Sean McMahon, Dom Shipperley and Jonah Placid) a West Australian (Cruze Ah-Nau) 1 out and out Kiwi (Scott Fuglistaller) an ACT boy (Colby Fainga’a) and 2 with split allegiances (Lopeti Timani, Tonga and Southern Districts & Pat Leafa, Vikings and New Zealand).

I think it would have been reasonable for say 2 more to be released back to NSW, to assist in distribution of talent. Probably Reid to the Rays, and either Jeffries to the Stars or Cummins to the Rams.

But otherwise I don't feel that it's excessively depriving NSW of the talent.

 

[TOCC]

Who cares about where the players are from.

The lowest crowds are in NSW. Therefore NSW has too many teams.

I agree that NSW has too many teams, but not because of the crowds... The crowds are also influenced by other factors like marketing and demographic appeal.

The yard stick for this competition should be the competitiveness of the teams, the second year of the comp will provide insight as to whether there isn't enough depth for 9 teams or whether the depth is too concentrated in some teams..

Also, it's more then just playing depth where NSW teams are disadvantaged against the others, it's also in coaching, S&C and logistical resources which all provide a boost to the teams on and off field performance. So whilst culling a team might concentrate player depth it doesn't solve the issue of the 'professionalism gap' between NSW teams and the super rugby backed teams.


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[Train Without a Station]

The yard stick for this competition should be the competitiveness of the teams

Really? In any sport if you had no problem getting crowds, and getting viewers but the perceived competitiveness and depth of players was poor, what would be the problem?

 

[TOCC]

Really? In any sport if you had no problem getting crowds, and getting viewers but the perceived competitiveness and depth of players was poor, what would be the problem?

If this comp had been around for 10 years and the teams had been given the opportunity to establish a supporter base then perhaps.. But this comp has had one season, Sydney teams had none of the logistical support or backing from the super rugby team that the other NRC teams had, so using 'crowds' as a measure of whether they should exist or not is just plain wrong. It ignores the lack of marketing and awareness that other NRC teams were offered.

If the Rams, Rays, Stars and NSW Country had the same marketing support from the Waratahs that the QLD teams had, then without a doubt the crowds would have been significantly greater.. Even without it, the Rays crowds were very healthy.

The long terms competitiveness of the teams and the competition as a whole will drive organic growth in the supporter base. This is why the competitiveness of the teams and the depth available should be used to gauge future changes to the competition..




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[WorkingClassRugger]

Who cares about where the players are from.

The lowest crowds are in NSW. Therefore NSW has too many teams.

Spread over 4 squads. What were the averages for the Rising, Vikings, Spirit last season? Qld Country wouldn't have posted outstanding crowd figures. While I agree, the crowds were disappointing not helped by poor marketing among other things. I would wager that if there one only one or two NSW squads the crowds would have been higher as they were more concentrated.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The reality is that both Brisbane and Sydney provide most of the cattle for the 5 Super Rugby Franchises.

There is little to be gained in splitting hairs or debating which is better at it, or that the Ponies, Rebels or Force would founder without the players from NSW or QLD.

I'm not against talent taking opportunities offered. I just find it a little disingenuous of some to highlight the lack of competitiveness of the NSW squads with a number of NSW (and QLD) developed talent forming the spine of their squads. If it were based on where you played your club Rugby we'd be talking about the lack of competitiveness of the likes of the Rising, Spirit or to a lesser extent Vikings.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Spread over 4 squads. What were the averages for the Rising, Vikings, Spirit last season? Qld Country wouldn't have posted outstanding crowd figures. While I agree, the crowds were disappointing not helped by poor marketing among other things. I would wager that if there one only one or two NSW squads the crowds would have been higher as they were more concentrated.

Not sure about the rest but the Rising was over 2000.

It's irrelevant how many squads it's split across. Other than for the fact that if you're getting the lowest, it's split across too many.

 

[TOCC]

hmm we will agree to disagree that crowds should be the measure of whether a team should exist or not.....Rising, Vikings and Spirit all received good crowds but reportedly provided the lowest ratings..



With all that been said, i think NSW has one too many teams, but a reduction in teams isn't the immediate solution to improving the competitiveness of NSW teams, there will still be a 'professionalism gap' between the NSW teams and the Super Rugby backed teams. The only way this will change is if the Waratahs/NSWRU and the ARU provide greater backing to the NSW teams.

Player Quota
Additionally i think there is room to revisit the Super Rugby player quota allocation in 2016, i think the 'Wallaby marquee' system is a bit of a dud, some teams like the Rising, Vikings and Spirit use it to select fringe Wallabies knowing that this won't count towards their Super Rugby player quota.

Teams are currently allowed 14 Super Rugby players in addition to 3 Wallaby players. So if a team selects a player like Tom English, Kyle Godwin or even Lealifano who are likely to miss the RWC squad, then these players won't count towards their Super Rugby quota allocation, meaning some teams could have up to 17 Super Rugby players in their team(Melbourne Rising).

So maybe they should revisit the quota and make it a total of 14 Super Rugby players including Wallabies. For example, if the Vikings nominated a squad of 14, and decided not to pick Speight because they thought he would be in the Wallabies, then another team who hasn't met the quota of 14 super rugby players could then pick him up, this team would likely be a NSW team.

 

[Jagman]

Player Quota
Additionally i think there is room to revisit the Super Rugby player quota allocation in 2016, i think the 'Wallaby marquee' system is a bit of a dud, some teams like the Rising, Vikings and Spirit use it to select fringe Wallabies knowing that this won't count towards their Super Rugby player quota.

Actually I think the system was that all EOYT wallabies from 2014 were able to go wherever they wanted, up to a max of 4 at each club. That's why Vikings had no capacity to stop Carter playing for Eagles even though he probably won't go to the RWC.


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[TOCC]

Actually I think the system was that all EOYT wallabies from 2014 were able to go wherever they wanted, up to a max of 4 at each club. That's why Vikings had no capacity to stop Carter playing for Eagles even though he probably won't go to the RWC.


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Yes it's the players from the 2014 Spring Tour, whilst NSW players might be free to choose which club they play for within NSW, you won't be seeing players from the other states swapping teams unless given permission by their Super Rugby team.

I think the Wallaby allocation achieves little, players like Fardy, Pocock and Moore who are obvious Wallabies aren't allocated anywhere and then other players like Godwin and English are nominated as Wallabies? I mean come-on.. If the idea is for a marketing boost then surely Pocock, Moore, McCalman, Higginbotham and Cummins carry greater marketing power then some of the others.

In the future teams won't want to nominate likely Wallaby starters and rather focus on the fringe Wallabies as they are more of a chance to play in the NRC.


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[RugbyReg]

I suspect like last year for the Spirit, the Super players won't all start every game. So they need a few options.

I spoke to Kyle Godwin at the launch today and he confirmed this. He is 'rested' this week, but will be back next week. He's probably going to be a 2 weeks on and 1 week off prospect.

He'd prefer to play every game.

 

[Forcefield]

While I subscribe to the thinking that NSW may be over sunscribed by a team. I think it should be noted that if all the NSW developed talent that's padding out a number of the other squads had returned there wouldn't be a competitiveness issue.

Look I am all for teams like the Force, Rebels and Brumbies sending back a handful of former NSW club players, but how do you convince them to do that? Surely they are earning nothing from being in the NRC and they are paying rent in Perth (for example), maybe they even have a partner over here- so why go back over East? And why would the Sydney clubs want to continue the development of WA based players? How is that rewarding the guys who are slogging it out for teams like the Rats and the Marlins?

I just don't see it as a possibility unless it is what the players want and I am pretty sure the Force would be open to requests.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Look I am all for teams like the Force, Rebels and Brumbies sending back a handful of former NSW club players, but how do you convince them to do that? Surely they are earning nothing from being in the NRC and they are paying rent in Perth (for example), maybe they even have a partner over here- so why go back over East? And why would the Sydney clubs want to continue the development of WA based players? How is that rewarding the guys who are slogging it out for teams like the Rats and the Marlins?

I just don't see it as a possibility unless it is what the players want and I am pretty sure the Force would be open to requests.

Never said they should send them back. Just highlighting that if all the developed talent were available to the NSW teams they'd be a great deal stronger.

 

[TOCC]

Look I am all for teams like the Force, Rebels and Brumbies sending back a handful of former NSW club players, but how do you convince them to do that? Surely they are earning nothing from being in the NRC and they are paying rent in Perth (for example), maybe they even have a partner over here- so why go back over East? And why would the Sydney clubs want to continue the development of WA based players? How is that rewarding the guys who are slogging it out for teams like the Rats and the Marlins?

I just don't see it as a possibility unless it is what the players want and I am pretty sure the Force would be open to requests.

A few years back players from the Force and Brumbies used to play in the Shute Shield and QPR, likewise Rebels players. This was a stopped to boost the quality of the local competitions instead, but it highlights that such concepts can be done.

There's no reason apart from politics as to why it shouldn't work, I'm sure there are a handful of players in the Force and Rebels who would love to head back to Sydney and play and train with their old club mates.




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[Forcefield]

True. True. But that was before an NRC comp where Super quality players could develop their game in the off season. Super level players can now do that from their new home.

We released Alcock last season and a couple of others. Call me naive but if a NSW player asked to go back, I think theyd be released. How many realistically are there that arent likely to start 2/3 games?

 

[Battler]

The players mentioned in these two articles that I have stumbled upon could very well feature for the Spirit.

Can't wait to see Nick Jooste play. Force must have big plans for him if they are going to use him in this comp and he is still at school.

 

[RugbyReg]

Anyone going to the game this weekend?

Looking for someone to write a match report and provide official Man of the Match and 3-2-1s.

Please let me know.