Rebels 2014

[Tomikin]

If you ever accept an offer somewhere to do the same job for
More pay can I call you a douchebag too?

And you can call me a douchebag either way.. But what I meant was that I can't see them being lads who would hold the team over a barrel for more cash.. Oh and I once turned down a 60k pay rise to stay were I was.. Mostly as my company was awesome and opportunity to grow was better. I never earned that cash there had to wait till I could start my own business.. best choice I ever made.

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[Deputy Van Halen]

Can't blame them for staying loyal, though I do wonder how they fit To'omua, Lilo and McCabe into the backline when all are fit, but I guess form and injuries will sort that out. Very jealous of that depth.

Here's hoping Barnes is feeling like a comeback, he's not going to fighting for a starting position if he plays for us and that may sweeten the deal now. I think Hegarty is steadily improving and is already a solid player but would actually benefit from learning and competing with a more experienced fly-half.

 

[Tomikin]

Can't blame them for staying loyal, though I do wonder how they fit To'omua, Lilo and McCabe into the backline when all are fit, but I guess form and injuries will sort that out. Very jealous of that depth.

Here's hoping Barnes is feeling like a comeback, he's not going to fighting for a starting position if he plays for us and that may sweeten the deal now. I think Hegarty is steadily improving and is already a solid player but would actually benefit from learning and competing with a more experienced fly-half.

I hope Barns returns more quality players in oz the better

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[Ghibli]

I am aware that this is the Rebels' thread, so maybe the comments below are not entirely focused - but just following on from the posts above.

Even if the Brums lose one or two, it will no matter (except for Fardy) - the Brums players reach excellence as they are part of the brumbies system, the system will continue to work with young talented players (e.g. Staninforth, Whetton) developing, stepping in and becoming part of the system.

It would be nice for all players to re-commit, but if it doesn't happen, can't blame a bloke seeking to earn a higher salary.

Back to the Rebels now.
Not sure Barnes would be your answer. You'd be enduring some of the frustrations Tahs' fans endured for years.

IMHO, either get an established overseas player in that position who can deliver at a high standard consistently, or invest in an up-an-coming talented Australian player who can serve the club long term.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Significantly lower then who ? Or what ? I seem to think while Matt To'omua wouldn't be on Quade type money he would be on a pretty good wicket. Same with all of them.. I'm wondering what's so hard understand that if managed right all those guys will stay.. Guys like Mogg and Fardy wouldn't be playing super if it weren't for the crumbles.. To'omua, Leo and Alexander are long term players.. And I m sure White paid enough to stay.. Then Smith Mowen Murphy are leaving freeing up cash to spread around.

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The team found them yes, so they would be on rookie-mid-tier contracts. Some of them are probably coming up for their first real contract renewal, expectign big increases because like you said the brumbies gave them their first gi because they where all nobodies. Mowen might be on some coin but I doubt the other two on anything that substantial. So they have to spread their limited funds across, the players up for renewal this year, while still having wiggle room for the following years. Not to mention if they have players on back ended contracts that could be a problem. So they could be between a rock and a hard place.

For some of those guys as well Wallabies spots are not assured, so potentially they are forfeiting 5k to stay at the brumbies and could miss out on Wallaby money anyway.
Sure it could be managed but you need to think of the other guys coming into the contract renewal equation in the next 3 years; Tomane, Speight, Kuridrani and Sio. Is every person supposed to be short changed? Especially when you consider they could potentially move back home to Sydney and Brisbane and make more money.

Your argument centres on the fact that they are not greedy and would be on alright coin anyway. However greed has nothing to do with it most of those guys would be on squad player contracts as they where all only squadies till about 2 years ago, when they got thrown in the deep end and miraculously made their mark against all expectations. Now most are stars and deserve the upgrade accordingly but not everyone is going to get it. Maybe you hold on to everyone this year but next year may be a different story.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

barnes is a natural attacker of the ball. i think the kicking was borne out of frustration with a lack of game plan and options.
he loves to run the ball. i see him as similar to woodward in the sense that woodward kicks too often, especially since his natural inclination is to run, but the kicking stems from reduced options and poor field position by teammates at times.
berrick is one of my favourite players of recent times to be honest.

 

[Bairdy]

barnes is a natural attacker of the ball. i think the kicking was borne out of frustration with a lack of game plan and options.
he loves to run the ball. i see him as similar to woodward in the sense that woodward kicks too often, especially since his natural inclination is to run, but the kicking stems from reduced options and poor field position by teammates at times.
berrick is one of my favourite players of recent times to be honest.

Not to mention, he's only 27 years old, and he has a wealth of super rugby and Wallabies experience.

If he is on the market, eyeing a return for the RWC in 2015, the Rebels would be crazy not to sign him. He is exactly what they need.

 

[Highlander35]

Not to mention, he's only 27 years old, and he has a wealth of super rugby and Wallabies experience.

If he is on the market, eyeing a return for the RWC in 2015, the Rebels would be crazy not to sign him. He is exactly what they need.

28 in less than 3 weeks, 29 for about 1/3rd of next soup season plus all the tests and WC.

Not to say your point is invalid, I'd like to see him here, but it's slightly disengenious.

 

[Dumbledore]

barnes is a natural attacker of the ball. i think the kicking was borne out of frustration with a lack of game plan and options.
he loves to run the ball. i see him as similar to woodward in the sense that woodward kicks too often, especially since his natural inclination is to run, but the kicking stems from reduced options and poor field position by teammates at times.
berrick is one of my favourite players of recent times to be honest.

Don't buy that. He's always been pretty conservative, but got gun-shy after the head knocks and started kicking the ball away constantly. I won't be at all surprised if he comes down here, since McGahan is clearly after a kicking flyhalf, but I reckon he'll shit the Rebels faithful to tears.

 

[oztimmay]

So only white and To'omua have signed at the ponies. Lilo still weighing up offers.

m.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/brumbies-get-a-double-boost-by-signing-halves-matt-To'omua-and-nic-white-20140507-zr64w.html

 

[Bairdy]

So only white and To'omua have signed at the ponies. Lilo still weighing up offers.

m.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/brumbies-get-a-double-boost-by-signing-halves-matt-To'omua-and-nic-white-20140507-zr64w.html

Obviously negotiating an increased ARU top-up.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

So only white and To'omua have signed at the ponies. Lilo still weighing up offers.

Inside centre Christian Lealiifano is still weighing up offers from Europe, but is getting closer to a new deal with the Brumbies and has assured management he would not play for another Australian club.

Sounds like Lilo is no chance for the Rebels.

Barnes has as good a running and passing game as just about anyone but his kicking last year... horrible.

 

[Forcefield]

Get a marquee fly-half for the next two years. A good old head. Meanwhile develop up Horwitz or McIntyre or whoever else is keen (Reece Hodge?). The Brumbies put a massive amount of time and effort into Lilo and To'omua. You can't buy that.

 

[oztimmay]

Sounds like Lilo is no chance for the Rebels.

Barnes has as good a running and passing game as just about anyone but his kicking last year. horrible.

Never say never. What did we learn from the Bernard Foley experience? I understand Lilo to be a man of his work, but something outside of his control might force his hand.

Barnes would be good for this club, so would be retaining Tamati Ellison. Basically we have three names in play, all with different things to offer. Depends on what we need (not want) the most going forward in the next few years.

 

[Tex]

I'll go out on a limb and say that we should be sticking with Bryce. Roberts has his flaws and doesn't seem quite up to the speed of the game, but Bryce is developing nicely.

Has anyone seen that young flyhalf Jack Debreczeni play down here? He's probably a few years off still.

To'omua and Lilo have taken years of hard work and mentor-ship to get to this level of quality. The Rebels have been guilty of taking short cuts with player development (in that they've been too happy to get outside talent in instead of developing internally), so I'd be happy to keep the team chugging along and gradually building.

 

[Dumbledore]

I'll go out on a limb and say that we should be sticking with Bryce. Roberts has his flaws and doesn't seem quite up to the speed of the game, but Bryce is developing nicely.

Totally agree, and I reckon most fans would as well. However, if McGahan is looking to play a territory based game then he's going to need a kicking flyhalf. It's why I reckon Debreczeni was picked up, he's built like a brick shithouse and can clearly kick the thing if he had footy clubs interested.

More than anything at the moment I think we need a better scrumhalf, and an attack coach who can actually get things moving before the 70 minute mark.

 

[Fowi]

Has anyone seen that young flyhalf Jack Debreczeni play down here? He's probably a few years off still.

I use to watch a bit of Debreczeni when he was at school. He was a class player then behind a strong trinity forward pack and like has been mentioned he has a booming boot. He is also very big for a 5/8 so can carry a few defenders with him , but as you said he is a few years off being ready for a start in Super Rugby. Personally I think he should be allowed to go back and play for West Harbour, its a higher quality than the Dewar Shield. Hopefully he gets some good time in the NRC and you can see what he can do. I don't imagine he will ever be the most flashy 5/8 but if you want to play a territory based game, Jack could well be your man.

 

[KevinO]

More than anything at the moment I think we need a better scrumhalf, and an attack coach who can actually get things moving before the 70 minute mark.

I actually think we need to swap our 12/13 around when attacking, Ellison would be good as a second play maker and Mitch is slowing the ball from going wide. On Defense I think Mitch is great

 

[swingpass]

[quote="Dumbledore, post: 601402, member: 3528
More than anything at the moment I think we need a better scrumhalf, and an attack coach who can actually get things moving before the 70 minute mark.[/quote]

i agree, the attack apart from then Cheetahs game has been ineffectual, only the Stormers have scored fewer points than the Rebels.

 

[AFL_Converted]

To'omua and Lilo have taken years of hard work and mentor-ship to get to this level of quality. The Rebels have been guilty of taking short cuts with player development (in that they've been too happy to get outside talent in instead of developing internally), so I'd be happy to keep the team chugging along and gradually building.

I think To'omua was class from his first game back when I was still a Brumbies fan. (I guess I still have a soft slot but it's all Rebels now). He just had a really bad run of injuries preventing him progressing. Remember he was a wallabies tourist very early (but injured himself early in his first touring game)

Your point was well made though. I did not rate Lilo when he first played and felt every attacking move was butchered whenever he touched the ball. He became a good player after that season season for Otago and even then it was not until Larkham came back that he really stepped up. Which shows what the right coaching and a willingness to listen will do.

I think Bryce is ahead of where Lilo aas at the same point so if he gets the right coaching and is serious about improving his weaknesses I think he will develp nicely.