Reds 2017

[TheBigDog]

This entire thread needs a 24hr 'inverted coma' ban I reckon.

Sheesh.

 

[gel]

Ewen's record as HC prior to reds:

Tahs: 2/14, 13/14, 3/14, 2/14
Stade Francais: 13/14 (incomplete), 4/14

I don't think McCall's appointment of Ewen McKenzie is entirely down to him being one of the boys. History shows he knows how to obtain results, whatever the methods might be.

I have no issue with employing a mate - but the underlying decision must be based upon performance. The mate thing may end up just being a happy coincidence.

I thought the Dan Herbert appointment as Managing Director of the Reds would mean that he can appoint the coaching staff etc and that the CEO was primarily for the QRU part.

Is there a need to wait for the CEO before the coach?

 

[TOCC]

Larkham, Gibson, Graham, Link, McGahan, Foley etc have all been 'jobs for the boys', they have all been friends, been promoted from within or had historical links to the organisation or someone within the organisation.

Realistically there has only been two coaching appointments in the the past 15 years who couldn't be accused of nepotism, Jake White and John Mitchell are on the surface the only two outsiders who were brought in.

 

[TOCC]

Duplicate

 

[No4918]

Is it groundhog day?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Robbie Deans?

 

[Parse]

Ok, so it's bee established, that in the majority, most appointments are of people already known by the appointers.

So the professional game has been going, hmm 20 years now perhaps? And in that time the Reds have got there once and got close once. overall they have been under-performers. So, in that light, perhaps the old ways of recruitment should be reconsidered.

Maybe we need a comic billionaire at the club who can draw anybody from anywhere in the world with the right number of $'s without caring who knows who.

 

[RedsHappy]

Larkham, Gibson, Graham, Link, McGahan, Foley etc have all been 'jobs for the boys', they have all been friends, been promoted from within or had historical links to the organisation or someone within the organisation.

Realistically there has only been two coaching appointments in the the past 15 years who couldn't be accused of nepotism, Jake White and John Mitchell are on the surface the only two outsiders who were brought in.

You're just avoiding the issue disingenuously. No one sane argued against 'using common networks and contacts' to search out competency and skill. Using a known network to find skilled recruits and new persons does not equal 'nepotism' in any sense whatsoever.

The 'jobs for the boys' negative tag is precisely as gel outlines, a derogation of the syndrome whereby implied criteria such as personal compatibility, low personal threat through 'mateship', and a subjective focus on long familiarity vs achievement and track-record overtake a preferencing or selection weighting based upon objectively measured performance, skill and demonstrated professional creativity in a role.

 

[TOCC]

You're just avoiding the issue disingenuously .

No it's a matter of perspective, do you know Dan Herbert at a professional level? Because i don't, for all I know he could well suited to the role he is filling.

Is Frawley a case of jobs for the boys? Is he under qualified to chair an organisation like the QRU?

 

[TOCC]

Matt Taylor for head coach?


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[Gnostic]

No it's a matter of perspective, do you know Dan Herbert at a professional level? Because i don't, for all I know he could well suited to the role he is filling.



Is Frawley a case of jobs for the boys? Is he under qualified to chair an organisation like the QRU?

What are his results in management positions leading up to the position he now fills? Proven results in those lower (learning) positions?

I'm not interested in bits of paper saying somebody is qualified, I have experienced too many examples of bits of paper saying somebody is qualified but in reality they are far from competent at the required role.

Sure if a known entity is qualified and proven competent then by all means recruit them, it has the advantage that a known entity is likely to be a good fit for the organisation which can be one of the big unknowns by bringing in an outsider.

One point that maybe hasn't been made is that diversity in management is touted as a strength in modern business and fishing from the same shallow pool all the time is not bringing in that diversity.

 

[girtbysea]

What are his results in management positions leading up to the position he now fills? Proven results in those lower (learning) positions?

I'm not interested in bits of paper saying somebody is qualified, I have experienced too many examples of bits of paper saying somebody is qualified but in reality they are far from competent at the required role.

Sure if a known entity is qualified and proven competent then by all means recruit them, it has the advantage that a known entity is likely to be a good fit for the organisation which can be one of the big unknowns by bringing in an outsider.

One point that maybe hasn't been made is that diversity in management is touted as a strength in modern business and fishing from the same shallow pool all the time is not bringing in that diversity.

Watch this space. Frawley is his own man. Previously CEO Black Rock and Now QIDC. Not afraid to rattle the cage. A rugby man through and through. Right man right place me thinks.

 

[TOCC]

What are his results in management positions leading up to the position he now fills? Proven results in those lower (learning) positions?

I'm not interested in bits of paper saying somebody is qualified, I have experienced too many examples of bits of paper saying somebody is qualified but in reality they are far from competent at the required role.
.

That's what I just asked, what were his results? Is he a very good operator or isn't he?

I've already said I don't know him.. People in prominent roles deserved their criticism if they are underperforming, what I want to know is that Herbert? Or is this attitude towards Herbert a byproduct of an opinion formed of the organisation based on past actions rather then his actual performance?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Matt Taylor for head coach?


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Think we could do a lot worse.

Bloke is incredibly enthusiastic, worked under Link and very well respected by the playing group. His stint in Scotland would have matured him a lot.

 

[gel]

Matt Taylor for head coach?


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What's his record as a head coach like?

I just don't think we should be appointing people who have not had significant success (not just experience - the two are not always mutually inclusive) as a head coach at a high level . Not necessarily super rugby - but surely at the very least ITM cup level or above.

I still think that we should throw everything at Todd Blackadder. Has he committed to someone else already?

 

[Scrubber2050]

What's his record as a head coach like?

I just don't think we should be appointing people who have not had significant success (not just experience - the two are not always mutually inclusive) as a head coach at a high level . Not necessarily super rugby - but surely at the very least ITM cup level or above.

I still think that we should throw everything at Todd Blackadder. Has he committed to someone else already?

The record as HC is perfect

But take your point

 

[Sauron]

Interesting to note that QC (Quade Cooper) described Jim McKay as the architect of the 2011 success, and he's just gone into a HC role in Japan. It doesn't help us for next season, but I think that we should try to bring him back after a couple of years.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Interesting to note that QC (Quade Cooper) described Jim McKay as the architect of the 2011 success, and he's just gone into a HC role in Japan. It doesn't help us for next season, but I think that we should try to bring him back after a couple of years.

Listen no one's a bigger fan of quade than me (seriously, is the best player of the professional era the world has seen), but is he in a position to know who was really responsible for what?

 

[Scoey]

A few media outlets are today talking up the Reds swapping Goro for Quade for next year. Both have options on their contracts for next year and that neither franchise appear excited by the prospect of signing them for another year. Goro doesn't really fit the Reds and Quade doesn't really fit Toulon.

Seems like a damn fine trade to me!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...n/news-story/a6a6255889431207b24d08d5f899d541

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/toulon-trade-quade-cooper-transfer-swap/

 

[RedsHappy]

What's his record as a head coach like?

I just don't think we should be appointing people who have not had significant success (not just experience - the two are not always mutually inclusive) as a head coach at a high level . Not necessarily super rugby - but surely at the very least ITM cup level or above.

I still think that we should throw everything at Todd Blackadder. Has he committed to someone else already?

Or Dave Rennie. Totally agree with your thinking gel. The QRU and the Reds simply cannot afford - in every sense of the word - another period of sustained coaching experimentation or indulged mediocrity.

The sole qualification I would make re a Blackadder is derived from what we painfully discovered re Deans. The Cantabrian rugby system is near unique. It possesses extraordinary historical depth in player feedstock, development and local coaching excellence. If one transplants a coach from that special, singular rugby world into a very different one, it's essential to be sure it's not the system's quality and depth that's maybe largely made the coach's seeming prominence vs something of the other way round and so that once removed from that bedrock, the coach built from its heart for his whole career may flounder.

On the other hand Rennie singlehandedly led the transformation of the Chiefs - and all that team's local supporting infrastructure - from consistent mediocrity to something of sustained rugby beauty, and all in a remarkably short period.

Further, unlike Link at the Reds from sometime in 2012, Rennie has not let searing ambition distract him, his Chiefs of 2016's vintage are even better than those of 2012's, which is quite exceptional and a huge testament to their HC.