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Reds v Rebels, Super Rugby Round 16, 1 June 2013

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RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
The Reds pigs will need to step up, when the Reds were dominant their pigs worked their arses off and provided fast ball by getting the ball quickly away from contact with little investment in numbers

Apart for 40 minutes against the Sharks they have been slowed and forced to play at the tempo of the defenders too often

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Huge point and so right, especially noticeable vs the Stormers.

And inexplicable to me, it's not been as though the opposition forwards' work since the Sharks game has been overwhelmingly powerful and uber-skilful.

Even Gill has moved from 9/10 class earlier in the season to a roughly 7/10 in most recent games.

Noticing this as I have and when combined with many other problems in the Reds playing skill, handling competencies, and highly inconsistent intensity has made me convinced that there are problems in the Reds coaching and senior leadership groups lurking beneath the visible surface and PR lines.

Something is going wrong with team culture and motivational depth. The dream is not alive and burning enough any more.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
One of the biggest factors at play for this game is: will Genia return to 80 mins of excellence? If he does not, the Reds current poor level of innovation and depth in back line plays - partly leading to a far too high a reliance on QC (Quade Cooper) to constantly deliver attacking solutions almost solo - will really expose the Reds if the Rebels can repeat their attacking variety and competency.

Genia's comparatively poor displays in RSA were telling. His mistakes and poor execution were very expensive in both games away. His old flaw of often waiting too long to exit the ball at the ruck was returning with either fruitless ref beckoning or raising his periscope too much to assess surrounding condition thus allowing opposition forwards to slow the ball or force turnovers, and/or disabling the Reds' attacking speed.

Fascinating how Quade's higher standards of play v WG were analysed to death and every little fault found and publicised, whereas 'the best 9 in the world' was kind of excused and his flaws neglected.

Agree totally - a mate of mine said that based on performances in Africa Genia would have made his Under 10 side 2 weeks ago and his Under 16 side last week. IF he is the "world's best 9" then he should be performing at a very high level week in and week out. Fact is, He is not. A bit of constructive criticism should be levelled at him for his lack of performance. - maybe he should be called "Teflon"

Hopefully this week he returns to the top form he is capable of -
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
.....Noticing this as I have and when combined with many other problems in the Reds playing skill, handling competencies, and highly inconsistent intensity has made me convinced that there are problems in the Reds coaching and senior leadership groups lurking beneath the visible surface and PR lines.

Something is going wrong with team culture and motivational depth. The dream is not alive and burning enough any more.
One thing I have noticed with Link is that his emphasis seems to have changed.
When he first arrived at the Reds he was more in the Cheika mould,he was happy to identify flaws and areas of improvement.
Lately, he sounds like Foley.spinning losing performances into acceptable efforts.
It appears obvious to me that Genia is not being held to account for several less than stellar performances.
If you have sacred cows, you no longer have minimum standards.That is not a winning culture.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
Bit like other teams preswsuring Cooper, particularly without Genia on the inside giving those other options.

I think JOC (James O'Connor) will be up to it because he is a tough little bugger but hey maybe the mistakes or forced errors will flow.

Whatever it still will be a direct comparison between both players - Intreresting times ?????
Sorry mate, I was only messing with you. Guys like O'Connor and Cooper play under that sort of pressure every single week - it's part and parcel of being the flyhalf. If Queensland go out of there way to put 'nasty hits' on O'Connor, they're going to lose their focus and that's when they'll get into trouble.

And just so we're all clear going in here - is McKenzie or Graham the coach this week?
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
And just so we're all clear going in here - is McKenzie or Graham the coach this week?


No one knows! I suspect theyve started a transition and Graham is doing a majority now... But McKenzie is still on the sidelines so who knows.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Link is the boss.
He is accountable.
Everything Graham does is under Link's supervision.
Given this season is what Link hopes to be an audition for the Wob's job,do you really think he is being more hands off?
 
D

daz

Guest
One thing I have noticed with Link is that his emphasis seems to have changed.
When he first arrived at the Reds he was more in the Cheika mould,he was happy to identify flaws and areas of improvement.
Lately, he sounds like Foley.spinning losing performances into acceptable efforts.

Well, as an outsider my view is that you are right; his emphasis has changed. He changed it the moment he announced his desire to move on.

Could it be that he lept from the barriers on the inside lane a bit too quick with announcing his move at the end of the season? Human nature to perhaps drop the ball on today when the mindset is about tomorrow.

And as for spinning poor results into acceptable efforts, doesn't that sound like what any coach would do when they might be gunning for higher honours when the current job is not looking so great?

Link needs to be a bit careful here. It is all well and good to put his name out there for an international gig, but if the Reds take a big tumble this year, his CV won't look as good as it did last year. Especially with RWC-winning coach Jake White on the up and up in Super Rugby.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Daz, ILTW: I'd debate a few nuances, but very good observations IMO.

Daz, the 'Link moves on' has been something of an oddity since early in the 2012 season. In my view, it's gone on too long and has ended up in negative, not positive, territory for the 2013 Reds team.

First in 2012 we had the "Link will now move to the new Director of Coaching role to develop the whole code and QRU-wide coaching capabilities across QLD...and R Graham will be Head Coach." This got badly muddled within days of its birth when Link, the QRU and RG said more or less confusing things as to how this would work in practice for the 2013 season. Not a good omen in terms of management and policy clarity for the times ahead.

I was immediately concerned when a key motivation the QRU announced re the RG selection in 2012 was that he would "get to understand how we do things at the Reds and would be a great resource getting out into the QLD rugby community". This all struck me then - and I said as much - as a subtle form of hubris, and very oddly little mention was made of RG's precise proven abilities as a Super 15 coach. The fact that he was a QLD-er returning and would provide all these attractive learning-from-Link and external communication capabilities and roles struck me as "everything is so good here, it'll just keep happening for us...". More ominously, there was regular QRU talk in this 2012 period of "building dynasties" and so on. Institutional FIGJAM anyone?

Then we unfurled the 'when greatness calls, we will respond' big tag lines which always had the dangerous potential for embarrassment if 'the response' was rather more tepid than suggested, and this is how events unfolded when our loss the the Sharks in the 2012 SF Qualifying round caught us napping and we looked more bewildered (as though our success was assumed pre-game) in that game than intensely focussed. Note that during this period, 'Chook' Fowler departed unhappily from the 2010-11 coaches team, and Tatsy Taylor announced a new role in Scotland for 2013. The coaching group that had, remarkably, turned the 2009 Reds into 2011 champions was slowly being dismantled. But no one seemed to notice this much, or care. This always concerned me as I said at the time, partly as I have, on his record, never rated RG. The late 2011 QRU could have scoured the world for an outstanding, proven coach and probably recruited the man it wanted such was its then prestige. The choice of RG to take over the Reds was never clearly explained or justified in a convincing manner by the QRU and on paper had to be considered as very high-risk and adventurous especially given the 'when greatness calls' banners flying everywhere. No one could argue that hitherto RG had been proximate to or involved in demonstrable 'greatness' in recent elite rugby coaching.

RG arrived for the 2013 season and within a short while it was announced that in fact Link had no desire to leave active coaching, rather now he wanted a national coach's role. RG was to be Head Coach, focussing this year on defence yet driving player retention and new recruitment matters. Yet RG was/is barely heard from, Link is as media-prominent as ever.

I can only speculate, but it's my strong belief that in this entire 15 month long process, the 'magic' that was in the team and in the coaches' box (all of them, not just Link) has been slowly lost, bit by gradual bit. I believe that RG is not being perceived as a great, highly motivating replacement for Link, but that honest loyalties and compliance with tight communication disciplines are covering this up. Nonetheless, the complex and unsatisfying consequences of this long, rather odd and changing-in-midstream handover process to an unproven new coach, coupled with the break-up of 2011's winning coaching group, are evident in the team's manifest lack of overall improvement and skills growth since that stunning date with destiny in July 2011.
 

FiveStarStu

Bill McLean (32)
1. Nic Henderson
2. Ged Robinson
3. Laurie Weeks
4. Hugh Pyle
5. Luke Jones
6. Jarrod Saffy
7. Scott Fuglistaller
8. Scott Higginbotham (C)
9. Nick Phipps
10. James O'Connor
11. Lachlan Mitchell
12. Rory Sidey
13. Mitch Inman
14. Tom English
15. Jason Woodward

16. Shota Horie
17. Paul Alo-Emile
18. Cadeyrn Neville
19. Gareth Delve
20. Nic Stirzaker
21. Bryce Hegarty
22. Kimami Sitauti
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
1- Greg Holmes
2- James Hanson
3- James Slipper
4- Rob Simmons
5- James Horwill
6- Ed Quirk
7- Beau Robinson
8- Jake Shatz
9- Will Genia
10- Quade Cooper
11- Luke Morahan
12- Anthony Fainga'a
13- Ben Tapuai
14- Rod Davies
15- Ben Lucas

Bench: Saia Fainga'a, Ben Daley, Ed O'Donoghue, Radike Samo, Liam Gill, Nick Frisby, Mike Harris
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
I don't mind the look of that team to be honest, changes had to be made.
Hanson should always be starting. period.
Eddie Quirk has a lot more worth than Samo currently, back after his deserved rest.
Robbo starting must be a rotation selection, although I actually think it came at the right time to add some freshness to the pack.
Ben Lucas is a good selection at 15, very underrated and hasn't had many opportunities this season.

Hopefully we don't have to see Frisby come on at all though, same goes for Samo, where I would still have Buttler on the bench ahead of.
 
D

daz

Guest
10. James O'Connor
21. Bryce Hegarty

Bryce is entitled to feel a bit miffed about that selection given his performances recently, but realistically it was always going to happen.

Same for young Stirzaker; Phipps is clearly being given the chance to continue to audition for the Wallabies.
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
1- Greg Holmes
2- James Hanson
3- James Slipper
4- Rob Simmons
5- James Horwill
6- Ed Quirk
7- Beau Robinson
8- Jake Shatz
9- Will Genia
10- Quade Cooper
11- Luke Morahan
12- Anthony Fainga'a
13- Ben Tapuai
14- Rod Davies
15- Ben Lucas

Bench: Saia Fainga'a, Ben Daley, Ed O'Donoghue, Radike Samo, Liam Gill, Nick Frisby, Mike Harris

Bummer about CFS and his hamstrings. Otherwise a decent side.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Bummer about CFS and his hamstrings. Otherwise a decent side.

Again!?

They spent an entire year trying to fix his running mechanics to stop ithe HS problems. Not good at all.

Early call but Reds by 12. My long-awaited arrival will lift the team. You heard it here first.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Beau Robinson has hardly looked convincing since his return (he's been very active, but that's a different trait), yet in the media release today Link referred to him as a 'form player'.

He will need to really step up in this game as starter as he's never returned to his 2011 best IMO.
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
Again!?

They spent an entire year trying to fix his running mechanics to stop ithe HS problems. Not good at all.

Early call but Reds by 12. My long-awaited arrival will lift the team. You heard it here first.


Jesus I hope they can sort the issues out. Interested to see how the role switch of 12 and 13 works for taps and finger. Maybe Taps will have a blinder now that he's further away from the form damaging flyhalf that is QC (Quade Cooper).

And where is Lance?
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
To be honest Taps has always looked out of place when he's played at 13.

Resting Gill scares me. Rebels lack a great 7 but Higgers has been doing loads of breakdown work recently. I thought with Gill we may gain some ascendancy or at least neutralize that part of Higgers game. Not sure how to feel now.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Bummer about CFS and his hamstrings. Otherwise a decent side.

He looked slower than his peak speed in that chase after JdV last weekend, and further he seemed to pull back when I thought he might have a chance to catch his man.
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
To be honest Taps has always looked out of place when he's played at 13.

Resting Gill scares me. Rebels lack a great 7 but Higgers has been doing loads of breakdown work recently. I thought with Gill we may gain some ascendancy or at least neutralize that part of Higgers game. Not sure how to feel now.


I know but I guess its worth a shot. Beau always struck me as a player who was better in the starting 15 than coming off the bench. Maybe its a psychological thing? Hopefully he proves me right.
 
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