Reds vs Waratahs - the war before the war

[Ilie Tabua's Shadow]

Wow, Kerry Fitzgerald is a bit of a throwback there!

Next thing someone will do is mention Clive Norling. Woops. Just did.

I think Barnes and Joubert are pretty good actually. Although I do wish Craig awarded just one more penalty to the French in a kickable position in October '11.

 

[Ilie Tabua's Shadow]

Last year, Sarel (Pretorius) made some great breaks for the Cheetahs, but really only against forward packs that were large & cumbersome.
Also in the first two trial games against the virtually amateur sides of Samoa & Tonga without their test players (currently playing in Europe), Sarel performed very well.
But next weekend he has to play against a side with fast & committed forwards. I suspect he will throttle back into a more stereo type halfback game, which id=s going to take a lot of the gloss off his performance.
Also, he will be playing against the master, a refreshed and enthusiastic Sanchez, who has a whole repetoire of tricks in his bag.
I somehow think the master will show the newbie a thing or two.

Not really sure what to make of the Tahs' trial form considering the lack of quality of the opposition. Whilst Qld can be heartened by the absence of Mitchell and Turner these derby games, like all the big ones, are won by the forward packs.

And who would have predicted SAF and PNG would have provided the 9s.

Go REDS

 

[sonny crockett]

Or Kev Crowe, remember being refereed by him and Kerry Fitz in an era past. They are the best the code has today, sure, but not sure they 'feel' the game and it's flow.

 

[#1 Tah]

Is it? That is a bit like the tree falling in the forest question.

Your logic is flawed. By saying that if you are not caught cheating, therefore you didnt cheat is like saying 'I didnt get pulled over and breath tested, therefore I wasn't driving drunk'. If an athlete takes performance enhancing drugs and does not get caught, is he still cheating (i.e. breaking the laws of the game)? Yes, yes he is. If players are offside at the breakdown and playing the ball off their feet (i.e. breaking the laws of the game) he is still cheating.

I said before sanchez played 20,000 games last year, zero of them off the bench, there is no way that anyone can recover fully from a workload like his. Talk all you want about the loss of Mitchell and Turner, you guys dont have quade.

 

[mudskipper]

Is Barnes out also? Reds v Tahs match is begining to
Loose it's real appeal... Brumbies v force should be better...

 

[#1 Tah]

Is Barnes out also? Reds v Tahs match is begining to
Loose it's real appeal... Brumbies v force should be better...

No, barnes will be playing.

 

[tigerland12]

Is this going to turn into the Match Thread or should a seperate one be started?

 

[cyclopath]

There will be a separate match thread, I would guess. With a more fact-based discussion of the teams and game, rather than the tabloid opinion in this one!

 

[Swat]

There will be a separate match thread, I would guess. With a more fact-based discussion of the teams and game, rather than the tabloid opinion in this one!

The war after the war? I'm expecting a lot of "you may have won the battle" comments.

 

[suckerforred]

Your logic is flawed. By saying that if you are not caught cheating, therefore you didnt cheat is like saying 'I didnt get pulled over and breath tested, therefore I wasn't driving drunk'. If an athlete takes performance enhancing drugs and does not get caught, is he still cheating (i.e. breaking the laws of the game)? Yes, yes he is. If players are offside at the breakdown and playing the ball off their feet (i.e. breaking the laws of the game) he is still cheating.

I said before sanchez played 20,000 games last year, zero of them off the bench, there is no way that anyone can recover fully from a workload like his. Talk all you want about the loss of Mitchell and Turner, you guys dont have quade.

I was baiting. Now, pushing the limits of the laws of the game to find out how the ref is interpreting them, is not cheating. It is working out how the ref is playing and therefore part of the game. Performance enhancing drugs and drink driving is entirely another discussion. If you have aproblem with how the ref is calling the game then deal with him, not the players.

We will have to wait and see how the Reds are going to perform without QC (Quade Cooper). Personally I think that the very smart coach that we have will have changed the game plan to cope with that. The fact that the Tahs don't have a first string winger available for the first 4 rounds, and then only one after that, is going to hurt them.

Swat - The war after the war? We win you loose. Now warring required.

 

[emuarse]

Last year, Sarel (Pretorius) made some great breaks for the Cheetahs, but really only against forward packs that were large & cumbersome.
Also in the first two trial games against the virtually amateur sides of Samoa & Tonga without their test players (currently playing in Europe), Sarel performed very well.
But next weekend he has to play against a side with fast & committed forwards. I suspect he will throttle back into a more stereo type halfback game, which is going to take a lot of the gloss off his performance.
Also, he will be playing against the master, a refreshed and enthusiastic Sanchez, who has a whole repetoire of tricks in his bag.
I somehow think the master will show the newbie a thing or two.

Interesting follow-on in the Courier-Mail this morning regarding Sanchez & Sarel

For the Cheetahs last year, Pretorius missed more tackles (48) in Super Rugby than any other player, often when over-eager.​

"I don't like talking about one-on-ones or targeting but I'll be looking to have a go around the scrum," Genia said. ​

 

[Schadenfreude]

I don't think that sort of analysis is worth anything. If his goal is to harass, pressure and delay then missed tackles don't really mean anything.

If he's missing more tackles because he's trying his guts out, then I'd weight that stat in his favour.

 

[suckerforred]

I wonder if we would be better off looking at missed tackles on a percentage basis. If Sarel has missed 48 out of an attempted 500, it is not as bad as missing 4 out of 10. Sure RGS or Austin might have these figures to hand.

 

[emuarse]

Also, possibly to Pretorious's credit, the Cheetahs overall defence was not too good, and he might well have been overextending to reach opposition backs.

 

[Ignoto]

But honestly, you don't remember the constant offside at the breakdown, taking defenders out off the ball, etc? Its my enduring memory of their season

Taking defender out off the ball? How about just being late in general;

We bitch and moan about the Kiwis and the South Africans doing it to us all the time, but when we did it in the Quarter-finals last year it was fine as we simply played the referee.

There's nothing to stop the Waratahs to push the boundaries and see what happens.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

theres a difference between R&M penalties and taking people out off the ball. The ruck largely subjective - how much effort did a player make to roll away; was he the tackler or did he come in after? Is the player holding on to the ball or is he being held himself? These are all split decision judgement calls the ref has to make, and you need to work out how long a ref thinks is appropriate to hold a tackled player, or how narrow the gate should be. Running forwards to the sides of the ruck after a tackle in order to remove defending players from their positions and thereby create holes is a different kettle of fish.

 

[qwerty51]

Still can't believe Dean got suspended for that, Fainga'a deserved it.

 

[mudskipper]

NEW White card territory

 

[Godfrey]

Still can't believe Dean got suspended for that, Fainga'a deserved it.

Without wanting to re-hash the argument, Mumm hit him in the back after the whistle had blow right in front of the ref. Cleaning out players who have made their way round to the wrong side of the ruck is fine. But hitting someone who is not braced for it is really fucking dangerous - just ask Houdini.

 

[qwerty51]

Without wanting to re-hash the argument, Mumm hit him in the back after the whistle had blow right in front of the ref. Cleaning out players who have made their way round to the wrong side of the ruck is fine. But hitting someone who is not braced for it is really fucking dangerous - just ask Houdini.

After the whistle isn't really fair, he was committed to the tackle. As you say cleaning out someone who is still in the ruck is fine. He should be braced for it if he's in the ruck, especially if he's on the wrong side and illegally got there. It's nothing like Woodcock's charge on Fainga'a in the Bledisloe 2 years ago. Reckon Deann wouldn't have gotten anything if Fainga'a got up straight away.