The success of League players in Rugby Union

[mxyzptlk]

Nobody should take any notice of anything Tallis says.He could hardly string 2 words together in his playing days,so it has always amazed me how he is still being paid as a "commentator".
Having said that,with his style of play,he may have been quite a good convert himself in the Brad Thorn mode.With a hell of a lot less class,though!

I've heard Tallis talk about his potential foray into rugby union, and how terrified he was of the rucks. He's called it barbaric, dangerous, and said he didn't understand why any parent would let their child play such a game. I mean, ruck marks!

This from the Raging Bull.

He never seems to miss a chance to take a swipe at union, unless he's talking to a union player, like Tim Horan or George Gregan or Matt Burke. Then he's nothing but complimentary, and even seems like he's payed a bit of attention to the sport.

It's a weird two-faced-ness, and one I don't see out of big media figures in union (except for maybe David Campese). A lot of the talk -- and that's all it is -- seems to emerge out of fear of exodus. Before union went pro it was common enough for union players to switch to league, and that gave league a bit of an ego boost. Then that player stream dried up when union went pro, and now it's reversing a bit. League doesn't have much of a presence outside of Australia and a region around the M62 in northern England. In the last league world cup, many of the players were out of Australia or England and only representing a country because of an ancestor, not because they played league in that country. The big hope for expansion seems to be Papua New Guinea. It's just not growing in the same way, and there may be a reason for that -- it's not as interesting to others outside of those regions.

But I do wonder if the regular beat-downs of union in the Aussie press doesn't help suppress interest in union in that country. It can't help it. I don't live there, so someone tell me: How much of that might have something to do with stakeholders in league who are also stakeholders in mass media?

 

[mxyzptlk]

In answer to the poll at the top: I don't want league players who come over to fail, but its good that some do because it lends credibility to our game in the eyes people who never give it a second thought.

It only lends credibility to rugby if the reason for the failure is the player wasn't good enough, or couldn't make the necessary adjustments. But when its spun to suggest rugby set out to sabotage a great league player's chances just to spit in league's eye, then it doesn't help much -- especially if those who are listening don't watch union in the first place and are more than happy to add another reason to their pile of excuses to put down union.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Alternative Question

Are there many union players going to league these days? Not at the school level, not union players who are recruited to a league club before they go pro with union. And not pro league players who switched back and forth to union, like Tuqiri. I mean pro union players who haven't played pro league before and choose to make the switch.

Is that happening at all?

Corollary

Are more league players looking to make a run at sevens because of the Olympics? I know that was one of Benji Marshall's hopes, and SBW has mentioned it.

 

[young gun]

And Wally was only a back up to Ella. And the only reason he got picked was because there were already 5 from Matraville High in the side so Lloyd Walker, who should have been there, missed out.

incorrect. Lewis was on the tour as a breakaway. Ella and Melrose were the 5/8's

 

[I like to watch]

I read they played him at 12?
Not that it matters,he fucked off for the cash as soon as he got home.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Bit of an oversimplification ILTW. Grew up playing league.

 

[Ado Tornado]

Not incorrect young gun. Lewis was never a flanker. He was a 10/12. In that side Ella was 10 Melrose played12. And Wally was on the bench. And 2 out of the 3 them
I know, so I am correct.

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

 

[mxyzptlk]

Funny thing about Benji Marshall: He wasn't getting game time in Super Rugby because he wasn't prepared to play at that level. He probably needed a season of ITM Cup, and didn't get that. He decided to part ways with Auckland when he was told to have a go at club rugby with the Blues developmental side. No thanks, and he was out.

But after his first uninspiring game back in league with the Dragons, he was sent to play reserve grade in order to get back into the league swing of things.

Isn't that basically what Kirwan was asking him to do at the Blues?

This seems short-sighted on both parties accounts. Benji was trading on his past accomplishments to walk into Super Rugby, apparently assuming a league player could do it without much trouble or development -- because they're just that good, like league media keeps repeating. But that's clearly not the case, and just because the skills are complementary, they're not necessarily directly transferable -- at least not without the right strategy and experience.

At the same time it was shortsighted of the Blues to trade on Marshall's reputation without working harder to get him the experience at a level he could learn and succeed at before throwing him in at the level Marshall wanted to play. Given Marshall's recent form at the Tigers, they should have known he'd need work, and any contract negotiations should have required some developmental work for a player who hadn't played rugby since he was a kid.

But the one good thing people keep mentioning is that at least Marshall's back in shape. Which... huh? I thought all the league guys were supposed to be Adonis-like freaks compared to the union players? At least that's what the league media repeatedly suggests. But it took Super Rugby to get Marshall back in shape for the NRL.

I think I'm starting to see how this works.

 

[Tom Ando]

Not at all.
Who ever wished Izzie to fail?
Giving players who never succeeded at a professional level,an express pass in front of proven performers at SS level,is a different issue.

Can you not remember the amount of people complaining that Izzy should not just walk into the Wallabies!?

 

[Tom Ando]

It only lends credibility to rugby if the reason for the failure is the player wasn't good enough, or couldn't make the necessary adjustments. But when its spun to suggest rugby set out to sabotage a great league player's chances just to spit in league's eye, then it doesn't help much -- especially if those who are listening don't watch union in the first place and are more than happy to add another reason to their pile of excuses to put down union.

Such sense. Much wow. So understand. But yes this frustrates me. Just go to the SMH and count how many back pages are on league, and then Rugby. It's about 5:1

 

[Dave Beat]

I'd like converts to go through the process in our code to get a contract though, the Fiji winger from the tigers getting a gig with the Tahs mid season - I didn't like that.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Alternative Question

Are there many union players going to league these days? Not at the school level, not union players who are recruited to a league club before they go pro with union. And not pro league players who switched back and forth to union, like Tuqiri. I mean pro union players who haven't played pro league before and choose to make the switch.

Is that happening at all?

Guess there's a half-answer to this: Triple M is saying that Rob Horne is poking around for an NRL deal. Apparently he was recruited by the Roosters when he was young, but stayed with rugby union. They're also saying that he's probably just looking for more money, so maybe this is a ruse to up his contract at the Waratahs.

Anyone have any news on this? Has he played league before, and/or is he unhappy at the Waratahs? If it's a contract issue, I can't imagine the NRL could offer him more than union in France or Japan.

 

[TOCC]

Can you not remember the amount of people complaining that Izzy should not just walk into the Wallabies!?

There is a difference between wanting a player to prove his selection and wanting a player to fail...


No one wanted Izzy to fail, but plenty of people, myself included wanted him to display the form which warranted Wallaby selection before he was selected.

There have been situations in the past(Timana Tahu) where a league player was probably selected for the Wallabies on his NRL accomplishments rather then his rugby union ones.

 

[boyo]

Such sense. Much wow. So understand. But yes this frustrates me. Just go to the SMH and count how many back pages are on league, and then Rugby. It's about 5:1

Look at the Tele - the ratio is about 1,000,000:1

 

[Pfitzy]

Guess there's a half-answer to this: Triple M is saying that Rob Horne is poking around for an NRL deal. Apparently he was recruited by the Roosters when he was young, but stayed with rugby union. They're also saying that he's probably just looking for more money, so maybe this is a ruse to up his contract at the Waratahs.

Anyone have any news on this? Has he played league before, and/or is he unhappy at the Waratahs? If it's a contract issue, I can't imagine the NRL could offer him more than union in France or Japan.

Well he joined the Tahs at 18 so I doubt whether he played any decent level of league.

 

[terry j]

maybe this is old (?), but listening to grandstand y/day there was some talk of carmichael hunt maybe looking at the reds. (is that a first and last name, or a hyphenated last name?)

Anyways, know zip about him but would he be good?

 

[TOCC]

It's rumoured that the QRU have held talks with Karmichael, any offer would need ARU assistance though, and Link has denied that they have held talks...

I'm confident he would go well, after 3 years in the AFL his transition might take a little longer then Izzy's though.

 

[qwerty51]

How big is he at the moment? When Izzy came back from AFL he was quite slim and probably needed another 5kgs for rugby. Got there quickly.

 

[Omar Comin']

How big is he at the moment? When Izzy came back from AFL he was quite slim and probably needed another 5kgs for rugby. Got there quickly.

Found an article that said he was as low as 87kg's for the start of the 2013 AFL season, but the Suns website has him listed at 91. Apparently he played at 93 in rugby league and was close to 100 when he played rugby for Biarritz (he was playing in the centres there).

If he signed for the Reds you'd think he'd be in the right shape after a solid pre-season.

Though it would be a great coup for the ARU if they could sign him and have him play in the inaugural NRC.

He'd be a great signing for the Reds and the ARU in my opinion. Excellent player, has proven ability in rugby union, and his marketing value is very high. Probably higher for the ARU than it would be for the NRL.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

he is another superb athlete with some brains about him. I don't think it would take him long to adjust given his background of rugby and loig. He would solve the Reds problem at fullback and would, IMO, be pushing for higher honours very quickly