Tier 3.5 - An Alternative NRC

[Quick Hands]

This summit does concern me if inviting to this largely just a bunch of relics from rugby's past. As of course they can contribute but would find it scary if their views dominated as they don't have the modern day experience of what today's sports fans and participants want from a rugby product as a competing entertainment product. I want innovative ideas from other codes considered, views of broadcasters who understand what their viewers want in terms of appealing sports content, amongst all the rugby stakeholders. If we don't look outside for innovation as well as within we have no chance.

We also need some strategic skills involved who can help ensure the problems and root causes are appropriately defined and we don't end up focussing just on symptoms...

The whole thing needs to be restructured IMO.

 

[Gnostic]

If only for the priceless mirth to be enjoyed (if that's the word) in reading JON's responses to the Papworth draft letter, this article is well worth consuming and further quotes the Papworth letter in full:



http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/10/20/spiro-the-aru-board-is-facing-an-uprising-from-former-wallaby-champions/

"As you know I was CEO of the ARU for about 14 years in total: two terms 1995 – 2004 and 2007 – 2012. In between 2004 – 2007 I was CEO of FFA. So, I have had about 17 years having the privilege of leading 2 significant National Sporting Organisations, both of which have the dual presence of domestic and international competition at the highest level. I was honoured to be inducted into Sport Australia Hall of Fame last year for services to both codes.
Also, prior to that career, like you I was a banker and was MD and CEO of the State Bank for 8 years."

But I have to tell you anyway in two paragraphs because I am an egomaniac who surely deserves another payout from somebody for being great.

 

[Gnostic]

This summit does concern me if inviting to this largely just a bunch of relics from rugby's past. As of course they can contribute but would find it scary if their views dominated as they don't have the modern day experience of what today's sports fans and participants want from a rugby product as a competing entertainment product. I want innovative ideas from other codes considered, views of broadcasters who understand what their viewers want in terms of appealing sports content, amongst all the rugby stakeholders. If we don't look outside for innovation as well as within we have no chance.



We also need some strategic skills involved who can help ensure the problems and root causes are appropriately defined and we don't end up focussing just on symptoms...

So do you want to play rugby with rules as set by the IRB (or whatever they want to call themselves ATM) or play a rugby version of AFL and then "International Rules"? As we are often reminded the game is in rude health in the NH and they couldn't give two F^%$#s about the state of the SANZAR nations, in fact the average fan may well like the impending slide as they will get the chance to win against SANZAAR unlike the last 20 years in the main.

There is no appetite for ELVs in the NH and in all honesty I just want to see quality rugby and for a few years we have had patches of good spread liberally with crap and mediocre with little in the way of acknowledgement that the poor performance is a structural issue.

Make no mistake a few long time posters, some of who have retired now from apathy and in disgust, have been harping on about this for the better part of a decade. This is a foreseeable outcome of the pathway the ARU chose and implemented.

 

[Quick Hands]

"As you know I was CEO of the ARU for about 14 years in total: two terms 1995 – 2004 and 2007 – 2012. In between 2004 – 2007 I was CEO of FFA. So, I have had about 17 years having the privilege of leading 2 significant National Sporting Organisations, both of which have the dual presence of domestic and international competition at the highest level. I was honoured to be inducted into Sport Australia Hall of Fame last year for services to both codes.
Also, prior to that career, like you I was a banker and was MD and CEO of the State Bank for 8 years."

But I have to tell you anyway in two paragraphs because I am an egomaniac who surely deserves another payout from somebody for being great.

Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Gnostic

You are only constrained by IRB's and NH if you believe you can't lead change.

Rugby league evolved out of rugby by those who dared to go against the established norm.

And indeed rugby evolved out of soccer by those who defined the norm because some dude picked up the ball and ran with it.

Some would say those who led those changes were radicals who had no hope of changing the status quo. History proved them wrong.

I believe Australian rugby can follow its own destiny to lead the change - starting below international level where a product can be designed with slight variations to international game which has wider appeal to domestic audience, without damage to international brand and help drive change.

I believe anything is possible if you see the opportunities rather than just the constraints. Innovative thinkers who want to challenge the status quo to create a product that has wider appeal in Australia and more sustainable future can shape our future.

You seem to challenge the thinking that a game that has more tries or higher scoring is not what more people want. That is your view as a traditional rugby supporter but is it the wider view of the next generation of rugby supporters? It is taking the good and throwing out and changing the bad or less appealing aspects. It is about compromise. But unless there is change you won't have much quality product to watch in decades to come. That I can guarantee you.

 

[p.Tah]

Now they're launching their own comp to rival the NRC. Now that's the solution to fix grassroots rugby.........

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ampionship-20161020-gs70cw.html?client=safari

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Oh great - another super league vs traditional war - we all know how that ended with league.

How bloody stupid....get to the table and stop the bullshit.

 

[mst]

Would the Murray-Darling river system run at full flow if the Pulverisor gave $100k to each of the Shute Shield Clubs like they used to do in the good old days?

Rather one dimensional and one sided argument from the Shute Shield Mafia. They all seem to be listening to that old radio station WII-FM.

It is easy being the Leader of the Opposition. Just have to criticise without actually having to propose any genuine alternate plan.


WII-FM - What's In It - For Me



Did Eastwood or Randwick win any Shute Shield Premierships when they were given $100k pa from the ARU to pay their First Grade players?

I think you summarise this issue very well, but also capture what is wrong with rugby nationally.

Fractured, segmented, compartmentalised, self-serving, differing agendas and motives.

Look at the language. Its not "the game", but individual parties he names which show a lack of unification or coordination.

Why 2 TV deals instead of one "for Rugby"? Again all about my bit.

But for me, it the simple fact that this argument has been going on for so long with no real solution to the funding issue in sight but nobody is willing to even contemplate change to move the game forward.

IMHO this is a war of the idiots. Lets them keep firing pot shots at each other and sadly we can watch until the guns go silent and we her the simple words......

Oh Shit! Ammo? What - we have run out?

What do you mean that no one thought to build an ammo factory!

The end.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Oh dear. They are throwing the toys out of their cot.

Not sure that this will be a wise move to take the NRC on in a full frontal assault.

Are the loyalties of the aspiring elite players to their CIty Club, or towards enhancing their prospects of a Super Rugby Contract?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Quality post Mst - I think you have summed up better than anyone what is wrong with rugby in this country.

I wish I liked league or AFL or soccer more sometimes....would be so much easier...

 

[mst]

Now they're launching their own comp to rival the NRC. Now that's the solution to fix grassroots rugby...

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ampionship-20161020-gs70cw.html?client=safari

But Bill, we are skint and we just need a bit of TV money. I wont piss it away promise!

FINE! FUCK YOU BILL!

We will just go and buy our own competition!

What? What do you mean who is paying to get our "new competition" on TV?

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic



You are only constrained by IRB's and NH if you believe you can't lead change.



Rugby league evolved out of rugby by those who dared to go against the established norm.



And indeed rugby evolved out of soccer by those who defined the norm because some dude picked up the ball and ran with it.



Some would say those who led those changes were radicals who had no hope of changing the status quo. History proved them wrong.



I believe Australian rugby can follow its own destiny to lead the change - starting below international level where a product can be designed with slight variations to international game which has wider appeal to domestic audience, without damage to international brand and help drive change.



I believe anything is possible if you see the opportunities rather than just the constraints. Innovative thinkers who want to challenge the status quo to create a product that has wider appeal in Australia and more sustainable future can shape our future.



You seem to challenge the thinking that a game that has more tries or higher scoring is not what more people want. That is your view as a traditional rugby supporter but is it the wider view of the next generation of rugby supporters? It is taking the good and throwing out and changing the bad or less appealing aspects. It is about compromise. But unless there is change you won't have much quality product to watch in decades to come. That I can guarantee you.

No my question to you was what we can truly achieve. The NH has no appetite for change because they are going very very well and do not want to alter a successful recipe, and given how badly we are going probably the right choice.

As for wanting to change the "product", you are right in that I want to watch Rugby. I am not a League fan and as I have stated many times on the forum I haven't followed that game since 1983 when the foundation club Newtown Jets were demoted/kicked out of the NSWRL Winfield Cup. I do not want to watch an abridged version of Rugby because it isn't rugby anymore.

The funny thing is the NRL has created a stable product that is able to be reproduced 90% of the time with regard to quality, but it is predictable boring as bat shit and when I compare it to the old League games has lost a lot of the skills and character I watched for. If Rugby also follows that path I can see I'll have a lot more time on my hands for the chores/work that my wife wants done. Maybe the house will get finished before I retire.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think we want the same things Gnostic but I never really liked the 3 point penalties as rule changes to address killing the ball etc means see too many penalties and where penalties and going for goal kills the game and just got worse as stats show. I really like the ELV's and reckon more of the Australian public will too if can get this at Super Rugby level and below where control and compromise on rule changes for internationals can be tolerated as not that big a change in the product to compete at international level. And in time maybe change can happen at international level.

But if we don't fix the product at domestic level we won't have an international product to concern ourselves with. I think we both agree given pressures at domestic level we have in oz we have headed down the right path with things like NRC and ELV's and can't see NRC reverting to traditional point scoring again....can you? Saids something in itself does it not?

All the best

 

[Rugbynutter39]

ps I think agree with your view on league - and reckon with a few tweaks like ELV's in oz can compete better against league long term....

 

[Gnostic]

I think we want the same things Gnostic but I never really liked the 3 point penalties as rule changes to address killing the ball etc means see too many penalties and where penalties and going for goal kills the game and just got worse as stats show. I really like the ELV's and reckon more of the Australian public will too if can get this at Super Rugby level and below where control and compromise on rule changes for internationals can be tolerated as not that big a change in the product to compete at international level. And in time maybe change can happen at international level.



But if we don't fix the product at domestic level we won't have an international product to concern ourselves with. I think we both agree given pressures at domestic level we have in oz we have headed down the right path with things like NRC and ELV's and can't see NRC reverting to traditional point scoring again..can you? Saids something in itself does it not?



All the best

That's the thing mate, The NRC has a very limited following. I have tried to watch it for three years. Tried because I am a fanatic. As I've said I am the only one in the Rugby circle I know locally, which includes a couple of nuts still packing down in their mid 40s (one still at THP ) which is a very big indictment on the penetration of that product into the already established rugby market place. If active participants are not watching and do not show up for a game what is the future of it. Add to that the commensurate decline I have noted in the following of Super Rugby. In all honesty I almost cancelled my Foxtel this year.

I see no future for the NRC (and never have) and now with the Clubs basically saying they are done with it, the ARU are on their own. They will either have to contract all the players directly AND pay them something or finish it up. I doubt it will exist in its current format next year.

 

[Gnostic]

Now they're launching their own comp to rival the NRC. Now that's the solution to fix grassroots rugby...



http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/sydney-brisbane-clubs-plan-breakaway-league-to-rival-national-rugby-championship-20161020-gs70cw.html?client=safari

I wonder if it also the start of a complete break from the ARU. I wonder if the Sydney and Bris clubs at these meetings will form a new "Union" not under the ARU. If they do I hope they run entirely amateur and release players for "representative" duties if called on.

As I posted above if this goes ahead in any form it spells the death of the NRC with any club affiliation giving it the pseudo legitimacy the ARU desperately sought without any of the stuff they didn't want (like devolution of absolute control because the ARU is so good with money).

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I guess I am more optimistic about what doing with NRC but rather acknowledge something started from scratch (new teams) and short window and no marketing means slow grind.

I believe the rule changes which encourage more attacking rugby and less kicks for penalty goals can eventually create a more viable product but not under the conditions above under which NRC created.

 

[I like to watch]

Oh great - another super league vs traditional war - we all know how that ended with league.

How bloody stupid..get to the table and stop the bullshit.

Nah,fuck em.
They are two years too late to try that one.
What player who knows he is a walk up start will turn his back on NRC to play some bulkshit nothing comp, sans super players it has to be weaker.

Bill,don't negotiate with terrorists.....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes trying to work out how that rebel league would be financially viable. I mean I can see Foxtel queuing up to televise those games...not..as devoid of best club rugby players who can be paid to play NRC, compete with Super Rugby players and audition for a Super Rugby contract, they will be left with scraps...great they get some diehard supporters - how the hell does that really help the game but just make it even more fractured than it already is.

I agree don't deal with terrorists and just let them play out their dumb threats.

Last post for me

 

[RugbyReg]

I believe the governing body (state or otherwise) had to authorise any game (or competition) in their territory for it to get insurance coverage and I think event referees.


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