Wallabies vs Wales - Docklands Stadium June 16

[barbarian]

Oh certainly, I'm not suggesting your view is invalid.

And yeah I probably contradicted myself slightly there. But only slightly- Genia made an error under no pressure, and the Welsh pounced due to a few kicks through and the fact that not one of our backs was in any position to make a covering tackle.

My overall point was if you were to judge who was the 'luckier' side I'd suggest it would be very close indeed, and thus I hardly think luck and chance were in our playing squad.
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[SaderCheif]

I know I shouldnt read too much into the media, but i find it funny how close both the Wallabies and All Blacks tests were both similar hard games yet aussie media says their test was 'a great win' and 'WOW' and NZ media generally say 'what went wrong? Carter saves AB's from blushes'

 

[DPK]

We have been demanding this Wallabies side learns to 'close out' the tight games. So often they have been poor in this regard. Surely Saturday night was everything we've been asking of them- composure, perseverance and execution under incredible pressure.
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Obviously you have a different idea of "closing out a game' to me.

Closing out a game is not snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, it's relentlessly finishing off an opposition once you've achieved dominance, on the scoreboard or on the park.

 

[Loki74]

I know I shouldnt read too much into the media, but i find it funny how close both the Wallabies and All Blacks tests were both similar hard games yet aussie media says their test was 'a great win' and 'WOW' and NZ media generally say 'what went wrong? Carter saves AB's from blushes'

Probably because we were playing the Six Nations champions who had put on a cracking performance the week before and expected to compete well, whereas the ABs thumped a disappointing Ireland last week and were probably expected to win well again this week. Beating Wales in a close one is a good result for the Wallabies. You can't expect a blow out win against a quality team.

 

[kronic]

I know I shouldnt read too much into the media, but i find it funny how close both the Wallabies and All Blacks tests were both similar hard games yet aussie media says their test was 'a great win' and 'WOW' and NZ media generally say 'what went wrong? Carter saves AB's from blushes'

Highlights the so-called mentality difference between the two countries.

We are generally optimistic, while across the ditch it's the opposite.

 

[barbarian]

I know I shouldnt read too much into the media, but i find it funny how close both the Wallabies and All Blacks tests were both similar hard games yet aussie media says their test was 'a great win' and 'WOW' and NZ media generally say 'what went wrong? Carter saves AB's from blushes'

Is it that hard to work out? The ABs are world champions and have never lost to the Irish. They are always supremely confident regardless of their opponent.

We on the other hand are always on the pessimistic side pre-game, especially against a good Welsh team and with the Scotland loss still lingering in the memory. So when a win comes along we are pleasantly surprised.

That's always been how it is.
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[SaderCheif]

Fair enough, it was just an observation. However the Wallabies are no2 and when was the last time Wales won in Aussie?
I dont recall.

 

[Loki74]

Fair enough, it was just an observation. However the Wallabies are no2 and when was the last time Wales won in Aussie?
I dont recall.

1969 - long, long time ago. But Wales are the current Six Nations champions and Grand Slam winners and as we know were 4th behind us at the last World Cup. Weirdly, they are currently ranked 5th, just behind England, but I would more realistically put them in a group with us and the Boks behind the ABs in clear number 1 at the moment (although I dearly hope we can put some sort of dent in the ABs this year).

 

[Athilnaur]

I see where you're coming from Daz, tho I was at the game and enjoyed the crowd, which was around 65% capacity.

Yes there was stages of flatness and static attack where it seemed like all Genia could think was give it to Digby. Barnes however varied our attack. We had a particularly good run down the left wing at one point, but Ioane got tumbled out when IMO Pat should have had a crack with diggers ready to pounce. Horne try another. Overall there was a few and in those crazy tight games there aren't many.

My main takeaway to that was excellent Welsh defence. They really stood up. In attack we defused them pretty well overall. The runaway try was to a very poor pass by Genia, it wasnt his best game.

Aa for the win, pure gold draw it deep from the gut played smart stuff.

Enjoy the win I say. Beale back next week, no doubt at fb, will be a cracker.

Ath.

 

[What2040]

Baa-baa,
shit - kicking a goal on full time to win a game is frigging very very lucky. Anything other is BS
Happy to take the win however it comes but at least I recognise the good fortune - no different to the AB's

 

[Athilnaur]

Fortunate clearly, but it was no accident Harris got the opportunity.

Ath.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Should of been in Perth. We would have got 45K to turn up.

no it shouldn't have. your 30+ plus stadium is worse than ours for rugby.
besides you get south africa...every year. i'll swap you.

Vuna is in the team as a result of injuries to drewster, tomane, lachie turner, JOC (James O'Connor) and probably a couple others. he's a solid attacker and his defense is markedly improved but obviously reading the game is a bit of a struggle still/....less noticable at super 15 level, but very clear at test level. so don't get in such a huff about him being there...he's there because about 5 better wingers are injured.

don't agree re Mogg - he's had less super 15 experience than vuna and not convinced he'd be even close to a test winger, shipperley and vuna is a toss up for my money. yes shipperly has scored a couple great tries but i am not nearrrrly as convinced as some of your reds fans that he's the second coming of christ (ditto morahan) which some of you seem to think.
Deans picked vuna ahead of ships - it looked good in the first test and i don't think a fairly decent showing by him in test 1 was any reason to drop him and bring in ships who wasn't even in the camp.
vuna will be dropped for test three and by the rugby championships JOC (James O'Connor) will be back so no dramas.

 

[Slim 293]

Mogg is just about as good or even better with ball in hand than Vuna, and his positioning and reliability under the high ball is far superior.......

His defence is lacking, like Vuna, but otherwise he's been better this year.......

 

[Slim 293]

Certainly,Mogg might not be test material yet, buy neither is Vuna....... Clearly.......

 

[Gagger]

Why use a full stop. When you can use three.........

 

[Gnostic]

I know I shouldnt read too much into the media, but i find it funny how close both the Wallabies and All Blacks tests were both similar hard games yet aussie media says their test was 'a great win' and 'WOW' and NZ media generally say 'what went wrong? Carter saves AB's from blushes'

Its funny that a few of us suggested the same thing and were attacked for being "negative" etc.

The match was thrilling in its closesness, but I still think the Wallabies were very lucky that they with such huge possession, territory advantage they won the game scoring only one try and never looking like scoring a second. It is not too far a reach IMO to state that the game would have been different if the Welsh had managed to retain their own first phase possession.

This true valid critique the ABs fans and media undertake is why they are the best. Their players are no better, talent wise, they are just far better prepared and part of that is really admitting where the mistakes are, not going into defence/excuse mode and say the conditions, tactics, what ever contributed. We have heard all that rubbish for years from Deans and the side he trots out now plays the same inconsistant, error riddled game.

I honestly believe the Wallabies players are generally as good and in some cases better than the majority of their opponents (the positive), they are not however given the tools to improve and succeed on a regular basis (the negative) and who should take the blame for that? The coaches certainly, but also the media and fans for being permissive of poor results and structures and encouraging avoidance of real critique.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Why use a full stop. When you can use three...

No-one likes periods.

 

[Bardon]

In fairness other than the scorelines being tight they were 2 very different test matches. It's very rare to see an AB side clinging on and being the 2nd best team for much of the game. While with Aus I never really had that sense that Wales were dominating at any period during the game. Yes both teams needed a last minute kick to seal the deal but Aus' relative performance was much better than NZs.

One thing I can't understand is how the final score, in these cases, so deeply affects our view of the performance of individuals. I'm not talking about someone getting a drubbing and everyone agreeing they were terrible or even a team losing a last minute try and blowing a winning position. I mean where the ball is placed for a kick at the post and the work of the other 21 players is done and dusted.

As the ball is placed the rating of say someone like Barnes (who's not even on the pitch at this point) is a 7-7.5. If the ball goes over that rises to an 8 or even a 9 and he's had a smashing game, which he actually did. If it's missed and the game is lost he's on a 6, had some good moments but he'll be lucky to retain the 10 jersey now that Beale is fit again. Similarly the ratings of forwards and backs will rise and fall as the ball makes it's way to the posts. If it's successful some players are heroes and proved they're the best in their position but if it's not they're not worthy of selection and sweeping changes are called for.

The only exception is that even if the ball hit both posts and the crossbar and was suspended in some kind of freakish over/not over limbo it still wouldn't change the fact that Vuna was utterly pants.

As for talking down silverware you've won, I believe you should never talk down anything won by the efforts of those representing your country and by proxy you through their hard work, skill, dedication and sometimes blind luck. You never know when it could be your last piece of silverware for a very long time. We fans of Tier 1 nations are very lucky. I believe that future generation may witness such unspeakable events as an Ireland, Aus or SA team failing to qualify for a RWC. Now those guys will have something to gripe about and they'll look back with fondness on the golden era which we currently enjoy.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Am relieved to see that the euphoria has been tempered on these pages. Got a bit tired at work of hearing how the wallabies 'did Wales'. Truth is there was v little in it. Have recovered enough to be looking forward to saturday. First time I ll have seen the full side

 

[daz]

As for talking down silverware you've won, I believe you should never talk down anything won by the efforts of those representing your country and by proxy you through their hard work, skill, dedication and sometimes blind luck. You never know when it could be your last piece of silverware for a very long time. We fans of Tier 1 nations are very lucky. I believe that future generation may witness such unspeakable events as an Ireland, Aus or SA team failing to qualify for a RWC. Now those guys will have something to gripe about and they'll look back with fondness on the golden era which we currently enjoy.

I agree with what you are saying to a point. We all know that it takes 100 things happening over 80 minutes to get a result, and no-one (including myself) really thinks that one action in isolation determines a result; the penalty after the siren was such an action and it really was fortuitous for the Wallabies.

But, and it's a but that I have really struggled with recently, when you talk about a "golden age", you forget that we were promised so much more.

We were promised that winning the Bledisloe was the first priority 5 years ago. Fail.

We were promised that the poor results and lack of trophy's were really just a stepping stone to the ultimate prize, being RWC11. Fail.

Now we are promised that in fact, it is RWC15 we are now targeting. Who knows?

Along the way, we have dropped some dreadful games and now our next generation Wallabies, who have been mentioned as some of the best young talent for years, have just been blown away at the Baby Worlds.

This is in no way a finger pointing exercise; others have done and are doing a far more aggressive campaign on finger pointing than little old me.

After much patience and support, (my record on these forums backing Deans fully over the last 4.5 years can not be argued with), I just don't see any promises being delivered, and we can say how good it was to win the Test series against the Welsh, but the manner of the win/s left me a bit cold. For a team that has been 5 years in the making I cannot say that (as of right now) I see us as world beaters in any respect.

I take into account we are missing some big names. But sport, like life, means you will not always have the preferred options available.

Anyway, like most things I post, it is only my opinion and I fully respect the right of others to see things differently.