Waratahs 2015

[Richo]

As Pfitzy says, if that's your view, what's to say that people out west don't share the same view and subsequently don't travel for Allianz?

Just because it doesn't suit you, it doesn't mean it applies to all those in Sydney. I'd guess more people from the west would be alienated by Allianz than the amount of people from the east alienated by homebush.

Obviously my view is both personal and anecdotal. But I am at last talking about real, actual people who have been paying to be members for years and in some cases decades.

Where are all these rugby-mad western suburbs folk who just can't wait for more games at ANZ? They haven't been at the Brumbies and Reds games held there in recent years (and yes, those games have had higher attendance than the average Allianz game but it's very hard to say that comes from the location rather than competition; crowds might have been bigger at Allianz). I'm fine for those games to keep happening there, but I don't see why the Tahs should rush to screw over their existing members in the hope for new ones that may or may not exist.

Btw, having taught at the University of Western Sydney for a number of years, I have yet to encounter any fervent rugby fans among the students -- but I have met dozens of league ones. The contrast at other unis I teach at in Sydney is quite stark.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But is it surprising that a team based spitting distance from the eastern seaboard doesn't have as many supporter 50km west in the city?

Currently the Waratahs really cater for only a small area of Sydney, and alienate a greater portion of the population. I'm not advocating any move, just saying that to say it is unwise ignores that fact.

Id hope if they were even considering it, they did some serious research into their support west of Leichhardt.

Ultimately for the best possible future growth, homebush is the best location to be in. Not saying it's feasible, just is closer to much more of the population.

 

[Pfitzy]

I'm fine for those games to keep happening there, but I don't see why the Tahs should rush to screw over their existing members in the hope for new ones that may or may not exist.

Similarly, why were all these Eastern Suburbs fans who follow rubgy screwing the Waratahs over so hard by not showing up to home games at Allianz this year?

Hopefully they show up next year, having at last been convinced there is something better to do than sit at home and watch it on Fox.

 

[Braveheart81]

The members are their core supporter group. Life and 8 game members should be carefully consulted because it would be folly to expect that this group who has stuck with the team through thick and thin could be easily replaced.

 

[Pfitzy]

I'd like to see the "real" membership figure to be honest. I got a 4-game membership but ended up at all bar the Force and Highlanders games, so paid my way for the others.

I'm going to do my damndest next year to put the Brisbane, Canberra, and Melbourne games on the agenda to get the ball n chain on board with this rugby support thing. Surely she wouldn't mind a weekend in Melbourne? She can bring a mate and go out while I watch the Rebels v Tahs, then both of them can meet up with me later

 

[Richo]

But is it surprising that a team based spitting distance from the eastern seaboard doesn't have as many supporter 50km west in the city?

Currently the Waratahs really cater for only a small area of Sydney, and alienate a greater portion of the population. I'm not advocating any move, just saying that to say it is unwise ignores that fact.

Id hope if they were even considering it, they did some serious research into their support west of Leichhardt.

Ultimately for the best possible future growth, homebush is the best location to be in. Not saying it's feasible, just is closer to much more of the population.

Potentially, that's true. However, there would likely (at least in my view) be a number of years with atrocious attendance while those potential fans were engaged. But how can you do that when you're trying to get people to come to sparsely attended games in a massive stadium that sucks to watch rugby in anyway?

League might be instructive, but I wouldn't know what the crowd figures are like. Have any league teams seen their attendance grow since moving there?

Pfitzy is right about the need for real figures. We're all engaged in pure speculation without actual numbers, including on market research. I agree 100% that the Tahs need to do more of that.

Generally, though, I think they need to rebuild the faith of fans who've drifted away since the Hickey years. Those are much easy pickings than folks who've never been fans at all. 10 years ago, Allianz had terrific crowds. Get those people back before trying to move more games into a new demographic.

 

[Omar Comin']

I think Homebush is definitely a better location geographically but the stadium really is too big and the stands too far from the action. Maybe one day Parramatta Stadium will be expanded to 35-40k or so - that would be a better option.

Though my preference would be for Sydney to ultimately have two super rugby teams. Waratahs at the SFS and a 2nd team at Parramatta.

10 years ago, Allianz had terrific crowds. Get those people back before trying to move more games into a new demographic.

A lot of people have left the Tahs for the Swans. Or at least split their attention between the two.

In fact, I'd say if the Swans had've had a poor season this year a few Waratahs crowds would have been bigger than they were.

 

[TahDan]

I think Homebush is definitely a better location geographically but the stadium really is too big and the stands too far from the action. Maybe one day Parramatta Stadium will be expanded to 35-40k or so - that would be a better option.

Though my preference would be for Sydney to ultimately have two super rugby teams. Waratahs at the SFS and a 2nd team at Parramatta.



A lot of people have left the Tahs for the Swans. Or at least split their attention between the two.

In fact, I'd say if the Swans had've had a poor season this year a few Waratahs crowds would have been bigger than they were.

I find it sort of surprising that people would move from Rugby to AFL... one of the big complaints a lot of disgruntled Aussie Rugby fans have is there's too much kicking and not enough ball-in-hand attack, so you'd think the logical place for them to go would be League, rather than a game that is all kicking.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against AFL, but one of the comments you often hear at rugby matches where the team's just play for territory is "are they trying to play AFL out there?"

 

[TahDan]

But is it surprising that a team based spitting distance from the eastern seaboard doesn't have as many supporter 50km west in the city?

Currently the Waratahs really cater for only a small area of Sydney, and alienate a greater portion of the population. I'm not advocating any move, just saying that to say it is unwise ignores that fact.

Id hope if they were even considering it, they did some serious research into their support west of Leichhardt.

Ultimately for the best possible future growth, homebush is the best location to be in. Not saying it's feasible, just is closer to much more of the population.

I wonder if from a strategic standpoint there's a case for the team taking it's matches on the road in NSW to a certain extent.

Do some research into where there is a strong rugby presence around the state and state playing 2 or 3 games in sufficiently large stadiums.

Maybe play a game against a kiwi team at Penrith Stadium, another at Piratek and one up in Newcastle. All have around 20k capacity, which is more than the 'Tahs average, so it would be interesting to see how it went.

Would certainly show a bit of good will and make the team feel more representative of NSW.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I get that obviously you have to have a home ground. And let's face it, Moore Park is basically in the heart of NSW rugby.

I guess my point is, is it the heart of NSW rugby because it's so far away from most of Sydney.

Penrith and Blacktown for example are a long way west from Homebush and it would be a struggle to get people from these areas to come to Homebush. But if that's the case, what chance is there of getting them to Allianz?

If you were setting a team up from scratch, wouldn't you pick a stadium which caters to your needs, offers you the best deal but also which is in the geographic and population centre of where you want to represent?

Obviously your points are valid Richo and most importantly, if there was a change, there could be a lag between that and even reaching the current attendances.

 

[Braveheart81]

Some of the complaints about transport to Moore Park will be reduced when the light rail is extended in the next few years.

Parking is likely to be less than optimal there forever. Improved public transport should reduce the demand on the parking and more people should use other options such as driving to somewhere on the way and catching public transport for the final bit of the journey.

The Swans seems to deal with it at the SCG as well as test cricket which gets much bigger crowds.

Any decisions need to carefully consider the key stakeholders and one of those major stakeholders are the members. There is sure to be an increase in members next year but the life members and other members who have maintained their memberships through the lean years need to be taken into consideration. It would be absolute madness to think that all these people will stay members no matter what.

It would also be silly to think that moving to a new location will bring in a massive new fanbase. It may happen over time but it's a difficult and risky option to take.

Clearly Allianz Stadium needs to upgrade some of their facilities. They could quite easily do that by installing better bar equipment (like the four pourer things they have at the SCG). My guess is now that the SCG has been completed, Allianz might start getting some attention again.

 

[I like to watch]

Stadium choice by the Tahs has significant revenue ramifications.
They receive $2.4M in kickbacks from Stadia each year.
By playing ad hoc matches here & there,will obviously reduce the $2.4M currently being received.
Can't see it happening personally.

 

[Braveheart81]

Clearly the Tahs need to play their games at locations where they make money.

Improved crowds should give them more sway with Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust to try and get facilities improved at Allianz.

All in all I don't think it's a terrible situation to have two games at ANZ each year, and the final at ANZ if we host it. Everything worked out brilliantly this year and they'll make a big profit. Revenue will be up next year as a follow on to that.

That system has kept things afloat during the lean years where the extra cash from the two games at ANZ was critical.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Unless they are getting quite large crowds (around 30k I think but could very well be wrong), the ANZ deal is better for them.

That's why NRL teams play in an empty ANZ stadium, because they get a good deal out of it.

But most importantly, I won't stop my crusade until Braveheart and the rest of you Eastern Suburbs latte sippers are forced to travel west of Pitt Street.

 

[Pfitzy]

To be fair, they've done a fair bit of travel, clutching their teddy bears and holding each others' hands as they creep into the wild, wild west

Not as much as I've done of course, but they go OK. Give them time.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>

But most importantly, I won't stop my crusade until Braveheart and the rest of you Eastern Suburbs latte sippers are forced to travel west of Pitt Street.

With a 2 round AAGPS competition, and the HOTR, some of the latte sippers aleady go West twice a year: once to North Parramatta, and once to Penrith Lakes.

 

[TahDan]

If you were setting a team up from scratch, wouldn't you pick a stadium which caters to your needs, offers you the best deal but also which is in the geographic and population centre of where you want to represent?

Definitely. I suppose the problem is homebush is in a strange space - it's geographically closer to the centre, but it can still be a little tricky to get to and it's not a rugby stadium ultimately.

Ideally, if you were setting up a team from scratch and the expansion had already occurred out at Parramatta (to 30 or 40k I think), you'd probably go for Piratek, because that's much better from a strategic perspective than homebush.

It's further away than homebush funnily enough, but it feels like a shorter trip on the train somehow.

 

[Braveheart81]

Unless they are getting quite large crowds (around 30k I think but could very well be wrong), the ANZ deal is better for them.

That's why NRL teams play in an empty ANZ stadium, because they get a good deal out of it.

But most importantly, I won't stop my crusade until Braveheart and the rest of you Eastern Suburbs latte sippers are forced to travel west of Pitt Street.

I'm west of Pitt St right now. In fact, I'm about 50m west of George St!

I've been a member since 2008 when the Waratahs started using ANZ and have only missed one ANZ game because I was sick. I have no issues travelling out to ANZ. We normally go to a pub near Central before the game (mostly the KB (Kurtley Beale)) and the Great Southern near Central after the game.

I just think it would shift things dramatically with a lot of the long term and life members if all the games were at ANZ.

A big part of it is the actual stadium. It's not dissimilar to Melbourne people not liking Docklands because it isn't as good for watching whatever sport is on. I agree completely that it is far easier and quicker to buy a beer at ANZ compared to Allianz.

The pubs and restaurants within easy access of Allianz are certainly a huge benefit and drawcard for playing there.

 

[Braveheart81]

Definitely. I suppose the problem is homebush is in a strange space - it's geographically closer to the centre, but it can still be a little tricky to get to and it's not a rugby stadium ultimately.

Ideally, if you were setting up a team from scratch and the expansion had already occurred out at Parramatta (to 30 or 40k I think), you'd probably go for Piratek, because that's much better from a strategic perspective than homebush.

It's further away than homebush funnily enough, but it feels like a shorter trip on the train somehow.

I think this is pretty inaccurate.

Parramatta is not that easy to get to for much of Sydney. If you're coming from the South or North you most likely have to catch a train through Central anyway.

Parramatta Stadium is about 20 minutes walk from Parramatta Station. The walk from Central to Allianz is similar. For most people that will mean shuttle buses which is one thing that people complain about regarding Allianz. Allianz will have light rail access from Central in a few years time which will make the issue much less significant at Moore Park.

Parramatta Stadium has far less parking available than Moore Park which would be even more exacerbated if Parramatta was upgraded to a bigger stadium.

 

[cyclopath]

To be fair, they've done a fair bit of travel, clutching their teddy bears and holding each others' hands as they creep into the wild, wild west

Not as much as I've done of course, but they go OK. Give them time.

That wasn't a teddy bear.