Waratahs 2015

[GaffaCHinO]

Izzy Folau can play at 13
Kuridrani can't play at 15

Conrad Smith can't play at 15

I'm a prob but sure I can 13.......doesn't mean I'll be any good at it.

Same for Folau I'm sure he can play 13 but he has yet to ever play there do I'm not really sure you can bracket him with names like smith and Kurindrani.

 

[TOCC]

Perhaps Izzy wants less responsibility, he has been harshly criticized for his kicking game, at 13 his poor kicking game can be unnoticed.

Manu Tuilagi plays at 13 in England, and always has been criticized by Poms because he can't give a pass. As fullback he will be humiliated

Leigh Halfpenny is a great fullback, but would make a horrible 13... Quade is a good flyhallf, but would make a horrible 13... We could play this game all day... Different skillets and physical attributes suit different positions.

I don't think anyone is disputing the difficulty of fullback, but you are making unfounded comments derogatory to a player. If you are going to make a passing comment like "Izzy wants less responsibility" then at least have something substantive to give credibility to the comments.

Its entirely plausible that he just wants to be closer in to the action where he can be more involved.

 

[Marcelo]

Leigh Halfpenny is a great fullback, but would make a horrible 13. Quade is a good flyhallf, but would make a horrible 13. We could play this game all day. Different skillets and physical attributes suit different positions.

I don't think anyone is disputing the difficulty of fullback, but you are making unfounded comments derogatory to a player. If you are going to make a passing comment like "Izzy wants less responsibility" then at least have something substantive to give credibility to the comments.

Its entirely plausible that he just wants to be closer in to the action where he can be more involved.

I disagree, Halfpenny isn't a great fullback IMO. He has a great kicking game and nothing else, it's the opposite of Izzy who has a poor kicking game but has a superior set of skills.

I really like Folau, he's a great player. I'm just saying we have a lot of depth at 13 and maybe he would like to be in a position where his poor kicking game would go unnoticed.

 

[cyclopath]

I disagree, Halfpenny isn't a great fullback IMO. He has a great kicking game and nothing else, it's the opposite of Izzy who has a poor kicking game but has a superior set of skills.

I really like Folau, he's a great player. I'm just saying we have a lot of depth at 13 and maybe he would like to be in a position where his poor kicking game would go unnoticed.

I suspect this might place you in a fairly small group in world rugby. Nothing else???

 

[Slim 293]

I don't think that 13 is the hardest in defense position, both centers have to defend the channel 2, then #12 & #13 are the most committed positions in defense at the backline.

What I meant is that the fullback is the most sensitive position in general terms at the backline. You are the last man, you gotta have a good kicking game, a good catching game and you are the extra player in attack. It's a very sensitive position, I played at the backline, and fullback is the hardest position IMHO.

Jesse.

Mogg.

[/discussion]

 

[I like to watch]

Pffft,he couldn't play1's in a Warringah team, on form.

 

[Slim 293]

MHCS is arguing that fullback is the hardest defensive position in the backline..........

Yet it seems to be the position where poor defenders are often hidden.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

MHCS is arguing that fullback is the hardest defensive position in the backline....

Yet it seems to be the position where poor defenders are often hidden.

IMO 13 is the hardest defensive position

 

[Slim 293]

IMO 13 is the hardest defensive position

I think the rest of us agree.............

 

[I like to watch]

Maybe you have to be clutching air,as the ball hits the wrong runner,to realise how tough defending at 13 can be?

 

[wamberal]

The full-back has other defensive challenges, particularly in positioning himself against attacking kicks.


It's not all about tackling, chaps, is it?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think the rest of us agree.....

Bar 1

 

[Alex]

I have always wanted to see Izzy get a go in the 13 jersey. The more one on one situations you can put him in over 80 minutes the better - and the 13 jersey strikes me as being the best position for that. Easier to get the ball to than the wing and less likely to be double teamed than a position in closer (without leaving another man free).

His ability to beat the man in those situations is as good as anyone - and his offloading in contact is outstanding (statistically last year I think he was the best in the game wasn't he?). Whether beating the man, sucking in an extra defender and putting a winger away or offloading in the tackle to a man on each shoulder, the attacking threat he brings in that channel could be special and I would like to see how he goes.

I will have to take people's word for the defensive challenges of outside centre (I never played a position that required double figures on my back so not my area of expertise). Intuitively it sounds right but presumably can be taught. He can do things in attack that can't be taught. I'd be investing time in him to see whether he can bring something special to the position.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that he should be the wallaby 13, but I would like to see what he offers. Right now Kuridrani is world class and you would need a compelling case to replace or move him - but players get injured and need to be rested and lose form (and I am also intrigued by Bob Dwyer's view that he belongs at 12). A Kuridrani/Folau centre pairing is the sort of thing that gets me excited (in that optimistic, pre-season, long time since the last rugby, reality hasn't set in yet sort of way). JOC (James O'Connor), Beale and/or possibly Hunt at wing/FB provide options for a second playmaker role with two big boppers in the centres.

 

[Joe Blow]

All things being equal and if all players are available and in form then TK get's the Wallaby 13 jumper without question. His defensive sting cannot be matched by Folau or anyone else on the scene right now.
I would have Folau on the wing if either of Hunt or Beale are showing irresistible form at 15.
Same goes for the Tahs. How can one justify moving AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the back of his 2014 super form at 13?

 

[gowaratahs]

I'm not certain Folau actually wants to play 13.

In 12 months time, when Folau's management team weighs up the offers from League, French Rugby, the NFL and NASA they will leverage off how the current employer has treated one of the biggest stars in the game - has it accommodated Folau's development and/or aspirations (regardless of how frivilous)? Or can they claim it has pocketed him into a role without the chance to "grow as a player" ie. to try something new?

I think this is all about leverage at negotiation time, and the smartest man in the room saw it for what it was - and said "yeah, for sure we'll be giving it a go... sometime". Cheika's no dummy, he knows how difficult it will be to keep Folau and he knows what unscrupulous agents will do to get an advantage. Got to fight unscrupulous with vague promises...

I love Folau's exciting attributes, though still cringe when he's asked to show basic rugby skills like how/when to present at the bottom of a ruck, how to set up a winger (like a number 13 should), and when not to try the 50:50 ball - he turns over a lot of possession. That his kicking is poor is irrelevant, both Tahs and Wallabies play ball-in-hand and the Tahs got away with an emphatic title with non-kicking Alofa, Horne and Folau at the back.

He is a commodity to be exploited until either we can replace it, or no longer afford it. Winning kick offs, highballs, 1-on-1 encounters, and returning kicks and running off inside backs (et al) with the proficiency he does - added to his clean image and happy nature - I say let's appreciate him till the RWC and find us some new (affordable) heroes then. I'd say actually trying him at 13 would be disastrous, and if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or TK broke down I'd use Horne well before Folau anyway.

However - if he wants to commit to Aus rugby now, give the guy a go!

Ps. I reckon we're going to see cross field kicking to Folau (with 1-2 backs hanging back as defensive cover) used as an attacking option - maybe one or two in the back half of the Super Rugby season and then as an attacking weapon in the latter stages of the RWC. It was his bread and butter back at the NRL - but Cheika's not going to let oppositions defuse it just yet...

I fucking abhors cross-field kicking to score tries (ie. NRL), though will take the RWC by any means possible! I still need revenge on a pommie bastard who sent me a puzzle in the post, which when assembled made an A3-sized picture of Martin Johnson holding the RWC aloft - I'm just grateful he didn't find a picture of Sheperdson's scrummaging in the 2007 QF... If anyone has a high-res pic of Farr-Jones lifting Bill in front of HRH, please send it through...

 

[Pfitzy]

I played at the backline, and fullback is the hardest position IMHO.

For you, maybe. But we're not talking park footy, we're talking Test footy.

At 13, when you're out in the third channel, you're looking for either your opposite, maybe the 10 on a runaround, blind winger trying to outflank or cut in, openside winger cutting back either side of you, or maybe even the fullback picking whatever line he wants around you.

And its even worse off set piece. In fact, given the number of tries that result from scrum or lineout, its critical to get that right which isn't easy. Meanwhile the wingers are just standing out on the paint looking at their opposite and shrugging.

Fullback is probably as difficult in open play, but you get a lot of support from your wingers if they know what they're doing. The worst bit is cleaning up after a shit defensive read from either of your centres, but there is a reason that, with a lineout, the fullback is going to stand behind the centres and chatter like a mofo as play unfolds.

I disagree, Halfpenny isn't a great fullback IMO. He has a great kicking game and nothing else,

Fuck I wish I'd seen this before I typed all that. It pretty much sums up your level of experience and/or knowledge on the subject.

Probably best to stop making comments like that if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[fatprop]

I disagree, Halfpenny isn't a great fullback IMO. He has a great kicking game and nothing else, it's the opposite of Izzy who has a poor kicking game but has a superior set of skills..

We get to disagree there, his positional play on kick receipt nullified Aus in the Lion's marches

There was space before the kick was released, but he was there for receipt, every time

Bloody good 15


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Forcefield]

I don't see the harm in giving Folau a game or two (or at least half a game or two) at 13 or on the wing. But we have arguably the best 1st/2nd choice outside centres in the World with Kuridrani and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). I rate Kuridrani as equal to Conrad Smith (although they are very different players) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) over Fekitoa.

An ideal situation would be for Hunt to play at fullback and absolutely nail it so that we could have him at 15, Folau on the wing and Kuridrani staying where he is. Personally, I don't see Beale as having any value to the Wallabies except at 15 so it would be good to see him get a run there through the Super Rugby season.

 

[qwerty51]

Everyone's coming in here giving their two cents worth about the situation for the Wallabies. This is for the Tahs only.

 

[wamberal]

Everyone's coming in here giving their two cents worth about the situation for the Wallabies. This is for the Tahs only.

The line is blurred these days, innit?