Waratahs 2015

[Hugh Jarse]

Agree with @Braveheart81. TPN will not be around for ever.

We need to develop both Roach and Latu for the future.

They are both good players but sooner or later one will get jack of being second fiddle to the other and head off interstate or overseas.

 

[Fowi]

Without a doubt.

In terms of your next regarding Latu and Roach I think they are both important members of our squad. Roach may end up surpassing Latu but he wasn't at that stage at the start of this season. I think Latu's throwing, scrummaging and physicality are much stronger at this stage.

Roach is a great player in the loose and really combines the speed and agility of a backrower with being a hooker (as evidenced by him playing as a backrower so much last season for Eastwood). I think it's going to take him a while to be able to do that at Super Rugby level though. I see both of them as really good long term options.

I agree that Latu is more physically capable than Roach at this stage hence being choose ahead of him. But I see Roach going past Latu in the long run, hopefully at the Tahs. Its good to have both of them as they are both looking like good prospects.

 

[Hawko]

I agree that Latu is more physically capable than Roach at this stage hence being choose ahead of him. But I see Roach going past Latu in the long run, hopefully at the Tahs. Its good to have both of them as they are both looking like good prospects.

In not just your post Fowi but in several above yours, there is an implied criticism of Latu's performance this year. Its his first year as back-up hooker, he has been injured for several weeks, yet before his injury he was, to my viewing, coming on to replace TPN with no discernable loss of impact.

If you can come on in place of the current test hooker and not look out of place, what more can you ask of a first year player? At his current rate of improvement the Wallaby pecking order will be Moore, TPN, Charles, Latu and Siliva within twelve months.

That'll do me. Everything's foggy in the future but in 2016/17 Charles, Latu and Siliva might well be our Wallaby hookers!

 

[Fowi]

In not just your post Fowi but in several above yours, there is an implied criticism of Latu's performance this year. Its his first year as back-up hooker, he has been injured for several weeks, yet before his injury he was, to my viewing, coming on to replace TPN with no discernable loss of impact.

If you can come on in place of the current test hooker and not look out of place, what more can you ask of a first year player? At his current rate of improvement the Wallaby pecking order will be Moore, TPN, Charles, Latu and Siliva within twelve months.

That'll do me. Everything's foggy in the future but in 2016/17 Charles, Latu and Siliva might well be our Wallaby hookers!

Huh???

I don't believe I have criticised Latu at all. I have merely stated my opinion that I believed based on watching them both last season that I thought Roach would turn out to be the better hooker. If you think that is a criticism then you are sorely mistaken.

I agree that Latu has done a good job when he has been called upon, I don't expect him to be better than TPN and i'm glad that we have both Latu and Roach on the roster as I believe that they are both going to develop into fine Hookers.

 

[p.Tah]

Please Waratahs don't let Kellaway get away. 10 tries at JRWC impressive.

 

[qwerty51]

Jack Dempsey too, first proper game and he did very well.

 

[gowaratahs]

Jack Dempsey too, first proper game and he did very well.

So who has to make way for Dempsey? I think Holloway (2yrs) and McCutcheon (3yrs) are off contract, and Hoiles doesn't even have one, not sure if Tala Gray got 1yr or 2.

He'll find himself in a tussle with Tipiloma Kaveinga, pending NRC form - though therein lies the risk - Super sides like to have their rosters sorted a lot closer to the end of the Super season than the NRC will allow. Last year the Tahs announced their side in late September which was considered quite late, so what chance do emerging players have to impress for contracts if the NRC kicks off in late August?

The NRC would be a perfect forum to pit contenders against one another, but it'll probably be Shute Shield form that gives Dempsey his opportunity - though Cheika has demonstrated that he is willing to leave spots open, noting Naiyaravoro took the last slot in April and he hasn't back-filled for Chapman nor Hodge (frugal, though ends up being wise).

Here's hoping the 2015 squad announcement will have a couple of vacancies and that the genuine, young and un-contracted contenders choose to stay in NSW and use the NRC as their platform at risk, rather than the increasing habit of players heading West (and now far-South) at the first sign of an opportunity to secure a contract or starting XV position.

Kellaway has the advantage of the Randwick connection, so may find himself courted early - though Cheika was even slower in announcing his EPS (did he even do it?) last year - AFAIK it is Roach, Peterson, Horwitz, Alofa with Hoiles (not sure if technically EPS).

We need to secure a good lock, KB (Kurtley Beale) and Rob Horne to complete the first XV, and the rest will look after itself (well, at least through some smart selection from Cheika). I've got confidence in his team building ability that I haven't had since Ewen was running things, though I keen to see him bring on some talented youth now that he's been around for most of 2yrs.

 

[Brumby Runner]

That'll do me. Everything's foggy in the future but in 2016/17 Charles, Latu and Siliva might well be our Wallaby hookers!

I would also have Pat Leafa in the mix. ATM I think it is Moore, TPN, Charles, Hanson/Faainga, Siliva, Latu, Leafa, with Moore, TPN, Hanson and Faainga to drop out post RWC.

 

[Caputo]

I think the Waratahs should enquire about Payne from the Under 20 and Brothers as he looks a ready replacement.

 

[Pete King]

Kellaway has the advantage of the Randwick connection, so may find himself courted early - though Cheika was even slower in announcing his EPS (did he even do it?) last year - AFAIK it is Roach, Peterson, Horwitz, Alofa with Hoiles (not sure if technically EPS).

.

Has the advantage of being a fucking good player too, pretty sure the fact he just scored more tries then anyone else has at the u/20s world cup has nothing to do with the fact he has played a hand full of games for Randwick.

Of the other Randwick players in the squad u have Kepu, Beale, Hoiles and Carraro.

Kepu and beale are Wallabies. Hoiles is a former Wallaby who got a shot in the trials after chapman did his achillies and Chieka wanted another lineout specialist. Id argue he has been pretty good off the bench this year too. Carraro has also played bloody well when given a shot.

The notion that Chieka would weaken his squad to favour players from his old club is bullshit and very unlike the man.

 

[gowaratahs]

The notion that Chieka would weaken his squad to favour players from his old club is bullshit and very unlike the man.

I think it would be naive to think for one minute that "the Randwick connection" has not re-emerged as a powerful force in NSW rugby due to Cheika, and now Kelaher. Do you really think Carraro's signing and homecoming from Europe had nothing to do with the Randwick connection? And would a non-Randwick coach taken the punt on long-term crocked Hoiles, I reckon not. And EPS (and Australian U20 first five) David Horwitz didn't pick himself (as far as I heard his father petitioned Cheika relentlessly to get him on the Argentina tour). As for Kepu and Beale, they were established before signing with the Wicks so any discussion there is moot - Beale was actually a shoreman when he started at the Tahs, and McKenzie brought Kepu over from NZ into the Waratahs setup and coincidentally hooked him up with his old club, Randwick.

I've got no problem that Cheika is pulling strings that benefits the Waratahs first, and may have positive flow-down effects to his old club - which in turns develops his power base in NSW rugby. I think your head would be up your arse to think he's a got some sort of mortgage on rugby altruism (ie. suggesting there's no benefit of association), and note I never suggested he was weakening the Tahs to help Randwick - it's laid bare that the galloping green connections have added 3 borderline players in 2014 of which Carraro and Hoiles have both cracked the match-day 23 - and been entirely effective in doing so.

I'd like to see more of Kelaher against the big boys, be that Shute Shield or NRC. Problem is that with NRC starting so late, Cheika may need to act earlier so that he doesn't head West (or even North - he is a "red", yeah?). Too often over-hyped U20s fail to launch, at least if we get him on an EPS (eg. Alofa's) he'll have the Gen Blue as a launch pad in early 2015 - I don't remember him having a run earlier this year...

If Rocky comes back in 2015, will you still be playing the same tune?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Hoiles is a wallaby capped player, versatile and has previously captained one of our better super rugby teams. Any coach that could have a player like that as injury cover would be very happy.

 

[Pete King]

I think it would be naive to think for one minute that "the Randwick connection" has not re-emerged as a powerful force in NSW rugby due to Cheika, and now Kelaher. Do you really think Carraro's signing and homecoming from Europe had nothing to do with the Randwick connection? And would a non-Randwick coach taken the punt on long-term crocked Hoiles, I reckon not. And EPS (and Australian U20 first five) David Horwitz didn't pick himself (as far as I heard his father petitioned Cheika relentlessly to get him on the Argentina tour). As for Kepu and Beale, they were established before signing with the Wicks so any discussion there is moot - Beale was actually a shoreman when he started at the Tahs, and McKenzie brought Kepu over from NZ into the Waratahs setup and coincidentally hooked him up with his old club, Randwick.

I've got no problem that Cheika is pulling strings that benefits the Waratahs first, and may have positive flow-down effects to his old club - which in turns develops his power base in NSW rugby. I think your head would be up your arse to think he's a got some sort of mortgage on rugby altruism (ie. suggesting there's no benefit of association), and note I never suggested he was weakening the Tahs to help Randwick - it's laid bare that the galloping green connections have added 3 borderline players in 2014 of which Carraro and Hoiles have both cracked the match-day 23 - and been entirely effective in doing so.

I'd like to see more of Kelaher against the big boys, be that Shute Shield or NRC. Problem is that with NRC starting so late, Cheika may need to act earlier so that he doesn't head West (or even North - he is a "red", yeah?). Too often over-hyped U20s fail to launch, at least if we get him on an EPS (eg. Alofa's) he'll have the Gen Blue as a launch pad in early 2015 - I don't remember him having a run earlier this year.

If Rocky comes back in 2015, will you still be playing the same tune?

Hey come to think of it Link is an Ex galloping green so via your logic Kellaway should get a free ride straight through to the Wallabies.

Im not discounting the fact that association between coaches and players exsits my comments were directet at your statement "Kellaway has the advantage of the Randwick Connection so may find himself courted early". My issue with this is there is a suggestion that these players arent there on merit, the players that are there are assests to the squad, Hoiles is a credentialed player and you would hardly argue that Chieka has rolled out the red carpet for him. He had to train for nothing over the summer then a injury to another experience back rower gave him an opportunity in trials and he performed better then the other candiadates. He has been i most 23 man squads all year and yet has no contract and is being paid match payments. So when it all boiles down you are using Carraro as your example that players from Randwick are getting a leg up.

 

[ShtinaTina]

Hey come to think of it Link is an Ex galloping green so via your logic Kellaway should get a free ride straight through to the Wallabies.

....hey....that's an idea.

 

[Pete King]

Also u "mooted" Kepu and Beale as examples so this powerful force u speak of is One player in the Waratah squad (fulltime) , 1 recieving match payments on the bench and two eps who just so happened to play two years in Aus Schools before aligning with Randwick. Think u sir may be talking out your arse

 

[gowaratahs]

Maybe you've chosen to misinterpret - perhaps based on allegiance and possible frustration of the performance of a team that you hopped on when they were winning everything getting in the way of a reasonable argument that Cheika just might be building his power base through his former allegiance (at least that's one interpretation, yeah?).

I'll rephrase my argument for you: a non-Randwick-aligned coach probably wouldn't have gambled on the fairly average Carraro, the long-term injured Hoiles, nor that particular u20 player. Ergo, Kellaway has the advantage of a Randwick connection, regardless of his talent at u20 level.

Not once did I imply, nor would I hope anyone could infer that I disagree with Cheika's selections nor with his vision - and I'm far from anti-Randwick (I used to drive from north of Newcastle to Coogee just to watch big Ratu/Nemani). As a long-suffering fan I'm happy with our progress, our position and our future, and I give credit to Cheika ahead of anyone else. But if there were 2 young players competing for a spot, with equal credentials, I'd back the Randwick lad. So why do you think Gary Horwitz brought his boy David to Randwick? Not for religious instruction, I bet - he knew exactly where David's best chance of cracking the Tahs was going to be at, and suddenly it wasn't Syd-U anymore.

Or are you just pissed the galloping greens have taken a foot out of the Brumbies camp and brought it back home to the Tahs? I'd blame Jake, Cheika's timing is just coincidental.

 

[Pete King]

Maybe you've chosen to misinterpret - perhaps based on allegiance and possible frustration of the performance of a team that you hopped on when they were winning everything getting in the way of a reasonable argument that Cheika just might be building his power base through his former allegiance (at least that's one interpretation, yeah?).

I'll rephrase my argument for you: a non-Randwick-aligned coach probably wouldn't have gambled on the fairly average Carraro, the long-term injured Hoiles, nor that particular u20 player. Ergo, Kellaway has the advantage of a Randwick connection, regardless of his talent at u20 level.

Not once did I imply, nor would I hope anyone could infer that I disagree with Cheika's selections nor with his vision - and I'm far from anti-Randwick (I used to drive from north of Newcastle to Coogee just to watch big Ratu/Nemani). As a long-suffering fan I'm happy with our progress, our position and our future, and I give credit to Cheika ahead of anyone else. But if there were 2 young players competing for a spot, with equal credentials, I'd back the Randwick lad. So why do you think Gary Horwitz brought his boy David to Randwick? Not for religious instruction, I bet - he knew exactly where David's best chance of cracking the Tahs was going to be at, and suddenly it wasn't Syd-U anymore.

Or are you just pissed the galloping greens have taken a foot out of the Brumbies camp and brought it back home to the Tahs? I'd blame Jake, Cheika's timing is just coincidental.

I dont know where to start with this tbh. How would you even have the slightest idea as to my association with Randwick. I dont pretend or want to know who u.

It is completely now lost on me the point that you are trying to make??? So ill yield to you, yes if players of equal talent are vying for the same position the Randwick player will 100per cent of the time will prevail. I would suggest that Kellaway is going to be alot better then quite a few but you make your own assumptions champ.
How many Syd Uni players are in the waratahs squad out of interest??
Think the fact that David Horwitz and Andrew Kellaway's schools first XV coach happens to be the Randwick 1sts grade coach might also have something to do with it but I could be wrong.

 

[gowaratahs]

The little RDRUFC icon in the header of your post was my first clue.

So maybe my point was lost on you from the start, I was interpreting what I saw - not judging it, and far from bagging anything Randwick. Hell, the Tahs will be playing in green if Dwyer buys the place

 

[Pete King]

That little green icon tells u I support the club, not sure that it tells you im a band wagon supporter who is frustrated with the current result.

Anyhow happy to put it down to a misinterpretation on my behalf, I wasnt try to righteously defend the club more so the idea that Kellaway isnt a fantastic prospect and Hoiles and Carraro havent earned their stripes. We are taking up too much of this thread happy to move on.

I know my Icon is Brumbs but big supporter of NSW also.

 

[Pete King]

Oh and Rocky imo would be a dud signing for the tahs.