WTC and Ashes 2023

[Pfitzy]

1) Didn't bowl to anything resembling a plan for long periods across the series

2) Couldn't hold simple line and length for more than a few deliveries at a time across the series

3) Shelled a couple of easy catches this game

4) Top and middle order would be considered failures - and in particular the guys playing waaaaay outside off or having an agricultural swipe at shit deliveries.

5) Lost our spinner.

And we still drew the series.

Amazing.

Bazball is a fucking myth. You can score that fast if you're allowed to, and we bent over and let them have their way with us through utterly bewildering field placements and bowling plans.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

We went to England with 1 trophy and they're coming home with 2.

Job done from that standpoint and I'd give them a score of 7/10 for the time they are over there.

England are going to need a bucket load of runs in India because I don't know how their bowlers are going to get 20 wickets. Anderson is bowling like a Club cricketer now. Broad retired, Woakes averages 51 in away Tests so he won't go. Mark Wood looks to wear down pretty quickly.

They'll need Robinson and Tongue to step up.

Cricket Australia needs to invest time and coaching into the States to pick up the Batting Stocks. Any young Shield Batters right now have a chance to get a Baggy Green over the next 2 years. There will be at least 3 jobs between now and the end of the Ashes 2025. Both openers and probably Smith as much as that hurts.

 

[Dctarget]

We went to England with 1 trophy and they're coming home with 2.

Job done from that standpoint and I'd give them a score of 7/10 for the time they are over there.

England are going to need a bucket load of runs in India because I don't know how their bowlers are going to get 20 wickets. Anderson is bowling like a Club cricketer now. Broad retired, Woakes averages 51 in away Tests so he won't go. Mark Wood looks to wear down pretty quickly.

They'll need Robinson and Tongue to step up.

Cricket Australia needs to invest time and coaching into the States to pick up the Batting Stocks. Any young Shield Batters right now have a chance to get a Baggy Green over the next 2 years. There will be at least 3 jobs between now and the end of the Ashes 2025. Both openers and probably Smith as much as that hurts.

Broad's retirement is clever. Go out surrounded by adoring fans on your own terms instead of humiliated away from home.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Got the 600 wicket mark.

His name is flying and he's bowling well. He'll have offers coming in from tournaments around the world if he wants. Big Bash tournament would want him because he's a headline grabber and wouldn't be afraid to WWE it. Imagine Warner at the Thunder and Broad at the 6ers to market those games.

 

[John S]

I’m not saying a thing. I think commenting / complaining on such a thing is best left to the Poms. We lost because we didn’t bat well enough esp in the first innings. We need our top order to be scoring 100’s and that hasn’t happened in the last 3 tests. We scored 100’s in the first 2 tests and we won. Coincidence?

I'm not complaining about it - just a weird thing I've never seen before.

That loss was entirely our fault - we let their batsmen amass huge totals and out batsmen just couldn't chase it down

 

[Braveheart81]

Bazball is a fucking myth. You can score that fast if you're allowed to, and we bent over and let them have their way with us through utterly bewildering field placements and bowling plans.

I think the aggressive batting isn't a myth.

Average scoring rates and scores have increased in test cricket very slowly over a long time. England have ratcheted that up substantially.

If batting fairly conservatively means you're likely to last 120 overs and score at 3 an over you end up with a score of 360. If you're more aggressive and can score at 4 runs an over you might only last 100 overs but you score 400.

If you are even more aggressive and score at 5 an over and last 80 overs you still score 400. Can you be that aggressive and last longer than 80 overs?

Where I think it needs refinement is going up and down the gears in your aggression such that you don't throw away wickets for no good reason when there aren't the right conditions to score freely and you need to bide your time for a bit.

 

[John S]

I think the aggressive batting isn't a myth.

Average scoring rates and scores have increased in test cricket very slowly over a long time. England have ratcheted that up substantially.

If batting fairly conservatively means you're likely to last 120 overs and score at 3 an over you end up with a score of 360. If you're more aggressive and can score at 4 runs an over you might only last 100 overs but you score 400.

If you are even more aggressive and score at 5 an over and last 80 overs you still score 400. Can you be that aggressive and last longer than 80 overs?

Where I think it needs refinement is going up and down the gears in your aggression such that you don't throw away wickets for no good reason when there aren't the right conditions to score freely and you need to bide your time for a bit.

And I think England finally got that through this series - you can see how in the first two tests they were pretty much throwing wickets away at the expense of scoring quickly, where in the last three tests, they were a lot more measured in their aggression.

 

[Braveheart81]

Australia didn't bowl well in certain parts and bled a lot of runs quickly. They needed to be more switched on to those times and bowl shorter and/or wider outside off to frustrate the scoring.

 

[John S]

Australia didn't bowl well in certain parts and bled a lot of runs quickly. They needed to be more switched on to those times and bowl shorter and/or wider outside off to frustrate the scoring.

Don't get me started on the bowling! At times it was downright park cricket stuff.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

That's one of the main parts around the Cummins & McDonald questioning. It seemed to be able to float away from Aus at times or they weren't changing and remaining disciplined.

 

[Derpus]

Ah well. Come away from a tour with two trophies and a winning record of 3-2-1. Can't be too unhappy with that.

 

[Sword of Justice]

The top 6 never gave the bowlers a total that they could truly use to attack England with impunity. Cummins and McDonald are not very nuanced and in retrospect could have been braver.

The final three games were a sequence of almost but not quite enough basically for the entire XI.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Ah well. Come away from a tour with two trophies and a winning record of 3-2-1. Can't be too unhappy with that.

I actually disagree, I felt we got worse every game over the 6 matches. It's all relative and I think we blew a golden opportunity to notch a series win in England for the first time in 22 years.

If I felt we weren't the better squad then I might feel like it was fair enough.

 

[Derpus]

I actually disagree, I felt we got worse every game over the 6 matches. It's all relative and I think we blew a golden opportunity to notch a series win in England for the first time in 22 years.

If I felt we weren't the better squad then I might feel like it was fair enough.

Are we the better squad? I'd certainly have Duckett and Crawley in our batting lineup, Stokes significantly better than Green or Marsh. Pretty good argument for Wood, Broad or Woakes in over Hazlewood or Boland. (edit: Root better than Labuschagne).

Our main point of difference was Lyon and we fell away when he did his calf.

 

[Braveheart81]

Australia's performance certainly dipped after the first two tests whereas England's improved. I don't think that's overly surprising though. We built a 2-0 lead and England are too good to capitulate at that point and likewise I don't think we're good enough to really put the foot on the throat and destroy a good opposition team. Being unable to maintain that intensity was pretty expected.

Disappointing not to win the last test though. We put ourselves in the box seat halfway through the final day then faltered.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Are we the better squad? I'd certainly have Duckett and Crawley in our batting lineup, Stokes significantly better than Green or Marsh. Pretty good argument for Wood, Broad or Woakes in over Hazlewood or Boland. (edit: Root better than Labuschagne).

Our main point of difference was Lyon and we fell away when he did his calf.

Good points raised, I think Duckett, Crawley, Wood, Woakes are certainly in better form but aren't going to end up as better players than Warner, Khawaja, Starc, Green. Labuschagne has an opportunity to create a legacy comparable to Root in my opinion but that remains to be seen.

 

[John S]

I think there were multiple times in the series that we threw the chance away - but our batsmen not scoring runs, getting out playing silly shots is the biggest issue.

Playing 6 tests in the space of 6 - 7 weeks jammed in between a whole bunch of T-20 cricket also has something to do with it too.

 

[Derpus]

I don't think you can ignore form when comparing the quality of two competing squads.

 

[Braveheart81]

Steve Smith averaged 37.29, Head 36.20, Marnus 32.79, Warner 28.50, Carey 22.22, Green 20.60. None of those are good enough.

Cummins averaged 37.72 with the ball and Hazlewood 31.68. Both of them were below their best, Cummins in particular. Boland, Green and Marsh were all below par as well.

We threw away any advantage we might have had on paper by our star players not playing to expectations.

Khawaja, Starc, Murphy, Marsh (with the bat) and Carey (with the gloves) were arguably our only players who met or exceeded expectations.

 

[Derpus]

We have some big issues for the next Ashes tour too. Half the team will have retired.