• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

CAS Rugby 2023

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
Would be interesting to get some input from Kinross and Stannies here…

They are some pretty great schools being thrown under the bus by the Barker faithful.

These schools are perfectly good schools, but are at a disadvantage by virtue of being in the country. For example, Kinross was 163rd in the HSC rankings last year and Stannies were 355th. If the boys in question thought they were better off staying at their previous schools then they would have.
 

WLF3

Darby Loudon (17)
These schools are perfectly good schools, but are at a disadvantage by virtue of being in the country. For example, Kinross was 163rd in the HSC rankings last year and Stannies were 355th. If the boys in question thought they were better off staying at their previous schools then they would have.
R or D,

Having watched this mini series unfold, here is a view that you might find interesting having been through all this before Barker.
Old saying : All that appears Rosie...

The HSC rankings are not the best measure of a good school by any means, so quoting rankings is a falsehood, often they are manipulated, additionally I would add, that academia in it's own right is a worry, and most of these boys, from our experience are not academically focused to support the ATAR rankings of any school.

Now, back to footy. Having been a part of the Waves fabric, as a Waves parent Rugby group helper for the last 5 years, here's what will more than likely happen at Barker, IMO.

The sugar hit of bringing in superstars, when they are proven superstars in year 11, will eventually face massive backlash from longer term parents, who are the real customers of the school, and who often do nearly all of the heavy lifting when it comes to donations, helping out at BBQs, Canteens, after match functions, home end-of-season dinners etc, the list is long, as are the efforts.

We have found that the vast majorities of imports parents have no interest in any such support of the school, and not will you see generations of these players.

So it is not hard to see what effect, and playback to the Headmaster, happens eventually, guarantee it!
There are also many other sports whose parents start arking up about their sport, and rightfully so.

Aside from all this, it has a major impact on the culture within the sport, having heard younger A age group boys say, "would luv to play in the 1s but I think by the time I get there, they will just bring some superstar in". It's a killer!

To say, they just need to get better, is not the point, particularly when their team dominates in most games, as they are clearly already up there.

So when you bring in wholesale imports it's a losing strategy for 2 reasons.

1. If you win the comp everyone says, so you should have because it's fake, you bought it.
2. If you don't win then everyone says what a bunch of idiots.

It's about balance, maybe a few new boys, prior to established year 11 players, is warranted, particularly in key positions like prop, for safety reasons, but only a small number, if any.

You can't win either way, however if you win with a home grown team from the early years eg years 7/8, then you are the real thing and everyone applauds the legitimacy of the achievement.

From a business point of view I can't see any school positioning it's prowess on a sport, in this case Rugby, if they do, I suspect that decision will come under review very quickly, for all the reasons mentioned.

Even if you think it will encourage a stronger program, as younger starters will/may be attracted, there is a no guarantee they won't be subject to the same treatment later when they get bigger.

A TERRIFIC school like Barker, I think, is, will eventually become smarter.
This is a short term sugar rush!
 

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
The Herald reported this morning that Barker is fully subscribed for a decade and is lobbing to increase intake caps. Sooo, that sugar rush seems to be working and might last a long time.

Not to mention expanding feeder schools in country regions, mainly, but not exclusively for Indigenous Students.
 

Halfbackenthusiast

Ted Fahey (11)
Not to mention expanding feeder schools in country regions, mainly, but not exclusively for Indigenous Students.
Only Oniti Finau and Isaiya Katoa began in year 11. Of course Barker will receive a lot of its best players in year 10, that’s when boarding commences but as per usual you always neglect to mention how barker has moulded players. Aden Ekanyake was a bs player and ended up playing for gen blue, Will Kennedy, who from reports hadn’t even played rugby before commencing at barker, Bryn Edwards now playing for aus 18s, Adam Van Wyk gen blue 1 second row, Gabe Read CAS 2s was a soccer player,Jakob Biet and Hamish McDonald both gen blue boys. Even players like Alex Metaxoulis and Leo Gibb have improved out of sight whilst changing from the back row to wing. There’s no doubt barker can produce its own talents but yes scholarships help a lot.
 

Jumping_jack

Ward Prentice (10)
On the flip side of that argument.
Importing 4 international level players (plus the others brought in) will make you a better player.

It’s easy for Ekanyake to improve running off Phillipson and Katoa and he looks like he is better in the scrum behind Sayoun and Oniti and better around the field next to a gigantic backrow.

It then also creates opportunity for others.

Look back at 2018 Barker how many kids were carried to a NSW schoolboy selection on the back of Pollard, Brown and Reimer(all on brought in to muscle up the rugby)
If you go through the team list quite a few. Tejcek was NSW schools captain (it did help that his Barker coach appointed him), now he isn’t even the third best colts halfback at his club.
 

WLF3

Darby Loudon (17)
The Herald reported this morning that Barker is fully subscribed for a decade and is lobbing to increase intake caps. Sooo, that sugar rush seems to be working and might last a long time.
I suspect Barker has a lot more going for it than just a strong 1stXV rugby program or is it all because of it's rugby program.
I think the answer is obvious.

Anyway, my point was just to share with you what does happen over time when you OD on imports.

P.S. I am also sure many other great schools are also booked up for years not just Barker.
 

Running_rugby_1954

Alex Ross (28)
Hooper was selected in gen blue as a year young

Phillipson was a year 9 first XV player.

Katoa was earmarked from year 6 as the next big thing in rugby league.

Oniti was the top ranked tight head as a 15 year old.

They were already great when they got there - that’s why they went there.
It is a solid list. If they had lost it would have been quite the debacle.
 

Jumping_jack

Ward Prentice (10)
It is a solid list. If they had lost it would have been quite the debacle.
It also is only the international level ones. Doesn’t include the likes of Sayoun who was the top ranked loose head prop for u15’s gen blue and Charlie Poynton who was playing firsts off the bench for St Augustine’s in year 9.

As you said, if they lost it would have been just incredible.

And they only beat Knox by 6 and Waverley by 1(3 driving maul tries too I might add) try and an international kicker who doesn’t miss a goal.
 

Halfbackenthusiast

Ted Fahey (11)
He hasn’t played rugby, but he was a rep rugby league player. That’s why he was in brought in for your backrow to carry the ball.
The whole forward pack would have been the seconds pack. How did your seconds go?
The seconds were a competitive side, there losses were often dictated by a conversion. Will Kennedy has been at barker since year 7, he became a rep league player after being developed in the program.
 

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
He hasn’t played rugby, but he was a rep rugby league player. That’s why he was in brought in for your backrow to carry the ball.
The whole forward pack would have been the seconds pack. How did your seconds go?
Mate… he joined in year 7… and his older brother was already at the school… pull your head in
 

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
It also is only the international level ones. Doesn’t include the likes of Sayoun who was the top ranked loose head prop for u15’s gen blue and Charlie Poynton who was playing firsts off the bench for St Augustine’s in year 9.

As you said, if they lost it would have been just incredible.

And they only beat Knox by 6 and Waverley by 1(3 driving maul tries too I might add) try and an international kicker who doesn’t miss a goal.
They beat Waverley by like 20? Not 1. And Sayoun improved so much from the time he started at Barker… he at one point wasn’t even looking like making the 1’s at Barker and he improved out of sight… because Barker is a great rugby program.
 

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
And
Only Oniti Finau and Isaiya Katoa began in year 11. Of course Barker will receive a lot of its best players in year 10, that’s when boarding commences but as per usual you always neglect to mention how barker has moulded players. Aden Ekanyake was a bs player and ended up playing for gen blue, Will Kennedy, who from reports hadn’t even played rugby before commencing at barker, Bryn Edwards now playing for aus 18s, Adam Van Wyk gen blue 1 second row, Gabe Read CAS 2s was a soccer player,Jakob Biet and Hamish McDonald both gen blue boys. Even players like Alex Metaxoulis and Leo Gibb have improved out of sight whilst changing from the back row to wing. There’s no doubt barker can produce its own talents but yes scholarships help a lot.
Only Oniti Finau and Isaiya Katoa began in year 11. Of course Barker will receive a lot of its best players in year 10, that’s when boarding commences but as per usual you always neglect to mention how barker has moulded players. Aden Ekanyake was a bs player and ended up playing for gen blue, Will Kennedy, who from reports hadn’t even played rugby before commencing at barker, Bryn Edwards now playing for aus 18s, Adam Van Wyk gen blue 1 second row, Gabe Read CAS 2s was a soccer player,Jakob Biet and Hamish McDonald both gen blue boys. Even players like Alex Metaxoulis and Leo Gibb have improved out of sight whilst changing from the back row to wing. There’s no doubt barker can produce its own talents but yes scholarships help a lot.

And Tom Livingstone who was unlucky to not make Aussie Schoolboys I believe started in the prep? Maybe it was year 7.
 

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
On the flip side of that argument.
Importing 4 international level players (plus the others brought in) will make you a better player.

It’s easy for Ekanyake to improve running off Phillipson and Katoa and he looks like he is better in the scrum behind Sayoun and Oniti and better around the field next to a gigantic backrow.

It then also creates opportunity for others.

Look back at 2018 Barker how many kids were carried to a NSW schoolboy selection on the back of Pollard, Brown and Reimer(all on brought in to muscle up the rugby)
If you go through the team list quite a few. Tejcek was NSW schools captain (it did help that his Barker coach appointed him), now he isn’t even the third best colts halfback at his club.

This may be the most bitter thing I’ve ever seen in my life.
 

Attachments

  • 2AC77259-A268-4354-8441-9FB35AFD3C74.jpeg
    2AC77259-A268-4354-8441-9FB35AFD3C74.jpeg
    26.6 KB · Views: 51

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
Only Oniti Finau and Isaiya Katoa began in year 11. Of course Barker will receive a lot of its best players in year 10, that’s when boarding commences but as per usual you always neglect to mention how barker has moulded players. Aden Ekanyake was a bs player and ended up playing for gen blue, Will Kennedy, who from reports hadn’t even played rugby before commencing at barker, Bryn Edwards now playing for aus 18s, Adam Van Wyk gen blue 1 second row, Gabe Read CAS 2s was a soccer player,Jakob Biet and Hamish McDonald both gen blue boys. Even players like Alex Metaxoulis and Leo Gibb have improved out of sight whilst changing from the back row to wing. There’s no doubt barker can produce its own talents but yes scholarships help a lot.

Yep. In 2 years Barker made a soccer player into a fullback who scored 4 tries in one game playing for CAS and who had 14 NSW players in one opens age group… but they are a rubbish footy program that buy all their talent in the eyes of footy genius jumping_jack… think it’s time people like JJ log off for a bit.
 

Goosestep

Syd Malcolm (24)
Seems like your tantrum has prevented you from registering what I am saying... Talent is not created by a school, it is received by a school and then nurtured... Barker does not receive the talent of the GPS schools or Knox or Waverley, but a successful 1st XV team will make parents want to send their kids to the school for rugby... They will then receive said talent and have a deep rugby program... It is a process that has just begun.

And as I said... if you miss out then you're not good enough. Get better.

Keep throwing your tantrum though, it's not like you like bitter and silly.
Doesn’t work like that .. you’ll just cause resentment amongst the parents, when the kids who have been in the As all the way up, get shafted in year 11 and 12 … that’s not how you create a good rugby culture unfortunately
 
Top