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Reds 2015

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Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Brad Thorn. Thoughts as a possible signing? It's rumoured.
I would be worried only about his recent spate of injuries. His age doesn't concern me one bit. I know they go hand in hand to a degree but you know what I mean. ;)
He would be an excellent signing for the right money.


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Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I would be worried only about his recent spate of injuries. His age doesn't concern me one bit. I know they go hand in hand to a degree but you know what I mean. ;)
He would be an excellent signing for the right money.


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They could sack the S & C guy and pay Thorn a bit extra:
 
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Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
Thorn would be good for 12 months maybe but isn't going to be a solution to the major problem. We need a back rower around his size who is damaging with ball in hand and when he hits guys in defence. Lock is an area where we are covered with McDulling and Enever. Sign Thorn and at least one of these guys will go.


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T

TOCC

Guest
I wouldn't be against it but i don't see him contributing significantly. Then again, having Thorn on the bench for the last 15-20minutes of the game would be pretty good... Has to be better then O'Donoguhue
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Thorn would be good for 12 months maybe but isn't going to be a solution to the major problem. We need a back rower around his size who is damaging with ball in hand and when he hits guys in defence. Lock is an area where we are covered with McDulling and Enever. Sign Thorn and at least one of these guys will go.


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Help me out here Jets. Does McDurling have the toe to play in the back row? It has been said on here that he plays with impact and with a big engine but I have no idea on his pace.

The Thorn idea has merit but only if he is signed more for his off field attributes and the Reds can offer the carrot of a career path after his playing days. A lot of his S&C outlook is needed as I think it was one of the areas that let us down this year.
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
I watched the press conference last night and am very disappointed with Richard Graham's responses.

Everything was an excuse.

He positively lit up when one of the reporters suggested that the injuries in this game are a reflection of the season and was clearly satisfied to play the injury card. S&C can and does have an effect on injuries, but so too does player confidence and technique. Doubt yourself in contact, or not practice properly and you will get hurt. He is head coach - there is a problem there, so take the responsibility for it, don't just use it as an excuse.

He once again used the "concentrating on attack instead of defence" excuse, just as he did after the disastrous New Zealand tour. He even said last night that attack wins you crowds and defense wins you championships - suggesting that is an either/or proposition (at least it is in his minuscule mind). Laughable, considering that the team we just played have the best attack record and the best defensive record (you can have both), and last years champions had the best attack, but the seventh best defensive records - making a mockery of his glib statement.

More likely, he will use this to somehow say he was forced to focus on attack against his better judgement in some reds membership drive thing. He has not accepted blame for the defensive coaching failure, because he has excused himself from it claiming he has focused on attack. Pathetic.

The stupidity of the timing of this statement now (just as it was after the New Zealand tour), was that it has come after two of the worst and utterly incompetent attacking efforts. If he is focusing on attack, then surely some amount of ball retention must be factored into his plans in attack? The skills required to attack must surely align with those of keeping the ball in hand and not gifting the opposition easy ball after one or two phases. If he has focused on attack so heavily, why can we simply not attack successfully? Surely that is a clear sign of failure. Our attack is 9th best - hardly awesome stuff for something that was a primary focus. Our defense until last nights disaster for the cheetahs was the worst. Embarrassing stuff surely for the defensive coach of the organisation. In both aspects, a massive failure. Fail at the thing you were supposed to do, and fail at the thing you were concentrating on instead of that which you were supposed to do.

He mentioned the closeness of the competition this year and that little things going the other way could have made the season vastly different for the reds. This is classic excuse making now: shoulda, woulda, coulda. The close results we had were hardly inspirational performances by the reds, and I count very few as ones where we "shoulda" won but didn't. Does he honestly think that we are the only team that is unlucky? Other teams have unlucky moments, but they win regardless because they aren't losers. Richard will focus on this (as he did throughout the season with the "x games within 3" speech), because he is, in fact, a loser and this is how losers talk.

He mentioned the inaccuracies in execution. Again. Surely this is an integral part of the coaches responsibilities. If the players are not training to be able to execute the simplest of tasks properly, then what is the coach doing about it? Lack of motivation, player confusion, incorrect training techniques, dicking around at training, low confidence, unclear communication, not doing enough extras - whatever the reasons for it, it is the coaches job to provide a solution for the players to fix it.

Those items furthest from his influence and expertise (forward technical play and set piece) are the best aspects of the reds at the moment.

Those items closest to his influence and experience (game plans LOL, defense, self proclaimed attack, basic skills and player management) are the worst.

He is a failure. He surely must see this himself (his facial features during the presser says he does), so why stay in a role that is clearly well above his abilities?

I don't want him around any australian teams ever again. How does it serve australian rugby well, when you have a coach running around ensuring that one whole franchise of players are ineligible for selection because he has coached them so poorly? How does it do the ARU any good to have your one and only profitable organisation turn to losses (poor results next year and the sponsors and memberships will disappear faster this time).

I wonder if ICE will continue to have their brand splashed all over the coaching gear next year, or if they will choose somewhere else (or some other team). They are very clearly linked to the coaching staff in the reds organisation - which is not a positive link.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Sheesh - that's the wrong thread :(. Sorry.


Bullshit, it is appropriate here. :) I worry about Richard Grahams ability to be a team player. The excuses and lack of self assessment make me think this.

I'm not going down the path of the sun shines out of Link's arse but think back to the start of 2011. We lost those first two games, with the second to the Tahs being quite the pounding. The coaches owned up to what they thought were selection errors and that they got the tactics wrong. They set about making the changes owning the past. Round 3 saw us win in Canberra for the first time in Super Rugby history and the rest of the season is history and speaks for itself.

Graham is just not up to the task. He hasn't shown the maturity to be up to the task.
 
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Juan Cote

Syd Malcolm (24)
It is clear that Richard Graham isn't up to the task, there is nothing new in that statement.

His logic is chaotic and his attempted justifications are becoming more and more desperate. The Reds set-up is hemoraging badly and those in charge aren't prepared to own up to their own errors in judgement. This is what happens to organisations where hubris takes over from analysis.

50,000 members? I'd love to see the criteria used to come up with that figure.

What is extraordinary is players talk openly of their disillusionment with RG as a coach, motivator and leader but no notice seems to he taken. No wonder so many of them are doing whatever they can to leave.

The obvious excuse is the injuries to players but let's not forget how awful the team was at the start of the season when they were playing with a full deck.
The trial game against the Rebels back in Feb set the tone for the season.
Richard Graham has now had two full seasons and has taken the team backwards.

The de-skilling of the the Reds is reminiscent of his time with the Wallabies and Force.

If Richard Graham stays in charge of the team, which I suspect he will, we're all being taken for a bunch of mugs and we deserve better
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I generally don't read posts that long @Gel but I read all of yours. Nice post mate.


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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/reds-2014.12505/page-112

Complete rank amateurs like myself (to be so immodest as to quote myself from February) questioned the Reds development on multiple levels at the start of the year, from the trials onwards. If we identified the issues that came to plague the Reds throughout the season surely the professionals should be able to see those same issues. I understand about having faith in the systems etc etc, but surely that is the point of trials, to identify the areas that the systems are failing and make changes.

Super Rugby is such a tight competition that after three or four games the season can be gone if a team is not in a position to adapt and improve their game. That is where RG has failed totally IMO. The trials showed that the defence was a real problem, this didn't change all year. The Reds consistently gave up a lot of run metres against even average attacking sides.

Then after the first regular season games, I saw that the attack had also deteriorated greatly to being little more than one out runners. That left Cooper to try too hard to make things happen as there were few if any attackers running in support after the first pass. In short the structures that had marked the Reds attack as one of the best in the competition from the days of Mooney had been changed markedly to this new style (which eerily reminded me of the Wallabies under Deans when Cooper was mercilessly derided by so many).

As the year progressed so many Championship players forgot how to pass the ball and execute basic skills. Then the injury toll mounted.

Finally if the Reds had played with in depth support and had at least average skills (which they used to have very high levels of) then all the breaks made by Samu Kerevi in the last two weeks would have seen some level of conversion to points. It did not because Rugby is a team sport and an individual does not usual win over a team.

I know that many fervent fans will not be able to bring themselves to critique the side/management and I will accept that from FANactics who support Rugby for entirely different reasons than I do. I cannot accept it from professional coaches and commentators who refuse to see that the problems of the Reds were there to see from the start of the year and they were either too lowly skilled to identify them (which means they aren't fit for their jobs, or they were wilfully blind and did nothing to correct them.

So many great and good players in this Reds Squad have been left floundering by the poor systems and their careers compromised in some cases by their struggling performances in a broken system. It is exactly the same as my critical views on the Tahs in years past and the Wallabies.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
Gel and Gnostic, can i steal and paraphrase for the Rebels. we haven't had to fall from any great height but the feel get from the reds supporters disappointment is similar to that felt down south with totally calamitous tony
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Gel and Gnostic, can i steal and paraphrase for the Rebels. we haven't had to fall from any great height but the feel get from the reds supporters disappointment is similar to that felt down south with totally calamitous tony

Gnostic isn't a Reds fan, NSW supporter I believe
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Gel and Gnostic, can i steal and paraphrase for the Rebels. we haven't had to fall from any great height but the feel get from the reds supporters disappointment is similar to that felt down south with totally calamitous tony

Swingpass as I have mentioned in the Rebels threads, Tony clearly deserves SOME grace. The rebels best ever season was 5 wins. This year you had 4 wins.

The reds went from 4 seasons in the top 6 and large wallaby representation to inept and fairly a very small representation in the squad (I believe the rebels were the only lower representation - who managed tier highest ever). Tony hasn't appeared to have gotten significantly less out of who went before him.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
Swingpass as I have mentioned in the Rebels threads, Tony clearly deserves SOME grace. The rebels best ever season was 5 wins. This year you had 4 wins.

The reds went from 4 seasons in the top 6 and large wallaby representation to inept and fairly a very small representation in the squad (I believe the rebels were the only lower representation - who managed tier highest ever). Tony hasn't appeared to have gotten significantly less out of who went before him.

we will have to disagree, he has a better squad and in my eyes certainly did a lot less with it. i believe no progress is in fact regression, but best left to another thread and another day. i was merely empathising with the apparent lack of accountability from the reds coaching staff
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Performance is the key to a consistent, successful Franchise. There are several major partners required to achieve same.
Administration Staff
Coaching Staff
Off field staff - medicos, strappers etc
Players - plus captaincy group
Sponsers
Supporters

Off Field Staff, Sponsers and Supporters have all done their jobs, and done it well.

The Administration side of things is unknown to the most of us so it is hard to be critical at this stage although the Admin selects the Coaches - which raises its own question.

Players and Coaches as do all groups above want to win win and win. There is no doubt that when the boys play, they play to win and any critics in that regards are just fuckwits. Our boys have plenty of talent but putting it all together is in the Coaching arena.

There have been some real player underachievers this year. That also is, I would think, a reasonable statement. Who ? Everybody knows or should know.

A few blokes have continued with stand-out consistent good form.
Simmons (front runner for Pilecki award)
Slipper
Holmes

Followed by;
Chibba
Shatz
Beau
Browning
Gilly (not much gametime overall)
Horwill
Lucas
Taps
Rocket (spasmodic)

A couple of the new blokes were just up to Super 15 standard and should be flicked back to Premier Grade

However, if the Adiministration think that by signing JOC (James O'Connor) and/or K. Hunt will magically turn around our fortunes then I reckon they are wrong. To me, it comes down squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, to increase skill levels, stength, culture, accountability, fitness, mind-set and confidence.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
we will have to disagree, he has a better squad and in my eyes certainly did a lot less with it. i believe no progress is in fact regression, but best left to another thread and another day. i was merely empathising with the apparent lack of accountability from the reds coaching staff

By some grace as well, I mean probably 8 rounds into next year. If he hasn't notched up 3 or 4 wins and consistent performances by then he's clearly inadequate as a head coach at this level.
 
R

Redsfan

Guest
Graham needs to go, or at the very least be demoted. Here's an extract from the press conference (as reported in the Fairfax press):

Graham was defensive coach under Ewen McKenzie and admitted he had put too much focus on attack, perhaps feeling the pressure to have his side produce the kind of rugby that helped the Reds become the best-supported side in Australia.

"I think we've made some good gains in our attack. We scored 12 or 13 more tries than we did last year, our set piece has improved significantly. But clearly the area we need to go back and address is our defence," Graham said.

"It was clearly a strength of ours last year. I haven't put enough time into it trying to improve our attack. Ultimately, that's bit us."

My thoughts:
  1. If it takes him until after the last fucking game of the season to see that we needed to address our defensive issues, then he clearly lacks the analytical skills to be a coach.
  2. If he did see it earlier, and failed to make even the slightest improvement, then he lacks the coaching ability that is required in his job.
  3. He had to deal with injuries, sure, but it became obvious through the season that the squad was not comfortable with the defensive structures as a whole. Again, this reflects poorly on his coaching ability. The defensive issues weren't players getting bulldozed in the right positions, the issue was players often not being in an appropriate position in the first place. It was his responsibility to ensure that this happens, and he has utterly failed to do so.
Carmichael needs to take a stand here.
 
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