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CAS Rugby 2022

TheSwindleKicker

Frank Nicholson (4)
Just found out barker have got 6'5 recking ball Covey Brown (yr 10) from a Pittwater high school ( school of Trbojevic brothers ). great ball runner force to be reckoned with, and has the ball skills of a flyhallf. CANT WAIT! barker vs Riverview this weekend should be a cracker.
Remember the name

Regards frank
yes it will be great to see a scholarship school vs a school that doesn’t offer sporting scholarships take to the field!
 

Shots On

Bob McCowan (2)
He is quite overrated, I heard he has relied on his size a lot throughout the junior years, playing for Warringah rats under 10s. It will be interesting to see how he goes against some real competition against the view. They have a powerful and mobile forward pack, so it will be good to see if he stands up to the test.
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
Just found out barker have got 6'5 recking ball Covey Brown (yr 10) from a Pittwater high school ( school of Trbojevic brothers ). great ball runner force to be reckoned with, and has the ball skills of a flyhallf. CANT WAIT! barker vs Riverview this weekend should be a cracker.
Remember the name

Regards frank
Does a recking ball do the same kind of thing as a wrecking ball?
 

ap1

Allen Oxlade (6)
Not sure how extensive it is, but I received a "CAS Satisfaction Survey" yesterday (via the school) requesting feedback on various aspects of the CAS sporting world.

Some of the questions seemed quite targeted to rugby. eg. "To what extent do you feel that CAS manages the risks of contact sports well", "Are you satisfied with the level of sporting competition your children are exposed to when competing against other teams within CAS". Other interesting questions included "Should CAS look to include more independent schools in its network".

Perhaps it was just a coincidence of timing with CAS soon about to start, but from what I have seen in my two sons age group's, the matches either side of those games and via discussions at club and rep rugby, there are going to be some really serious CAS mismatches this year, especially in the younger age groups.

What amazes me is that I have seen the risk assessment protocols that schools have to go to through to do literally anything, so I can't imagine how schools have teams losing approx 70-80 to nil in trial games and yet then have them scheduled to play in the CAS A's comps.
 
He is quite overrated, I heard he has relied on his size a lot throughout the junior years, playing for Warringah rats under 10s. It will be interesting to see how he goes against some real competition against the view. They have a powerful and mobile forward pack, so it will be good to see if he stands up to the test.
This is statement is beyond stupid, it was 6 years ago and Covey has had his head down bum up working hard for the last 6 years. And under 10’s means nothing because once you hit 14-15 natural skilled players start to be outshined by the hard workers.
 

WLF3

Darby Loudon (17)
Not sure how extensive it is, but I received a "CAS Satisfaction Survey" yesterday (via the school) requesting feedback on various aspects of the CAS sporting world.

Some of the questions seemed quite targeted to rugby. eg. "To what extent do you feel that CAS manages the risks of contact sports well", "Are you satisfied with the level of sporting competition your children are exposed to when competing against other teams within CAS". Other interesting questions included "Should CAS look to include more independent schools in its network".

Perhaps it was just a coincidence of timing with CAS soon about to start, but from what I have seen in my two sons age group's, the matches either side of those games and via discussions at club and rep rugby, there are going to be some really serious CAS mismatches this year, especially in the younger age groups.

What amazes me is that I have seen the risk assessment protocols that schools have to go to through to do literally anything, so I can't imagine how schools have teams losing approx 70-80 to nil in trial games and yet then have them scheduled to play in the CAS A's comps.
Hi ap1, I am just a CAS parent but I do know a little bit about what you are saying.

Across the CAS schools, come CAS comp time, the A teams will play each other, guess that makes sense, but like you, there will be some serious mismatching. From what I know/have heard Knox and Waverley have depth, so the results will be not good, to say the least, like game over after 10 mins.
Beyond the A teams then there will be a complete mismatch of graded teams and schools playing each other to fill out the round.
Soccer and AFL have helped caused this, so unless the strong CAS rugby schools are able to merge, 1 day if nothing changes, with another strong entity we could face the same conclusion.
It would be wonderful to merge but from feedback in this forum it would not be welcomed, so I guess who knows where from here!

Keen to hear other peoples thoughts!
 

Props are People too

Sydney Middleton (9)
I am sure the sportmasters do the best they can to try and create good competition but the talent pools seem so lopsided that it may be impossible to do, especially in the younger age groups. My sons’ team will either win 60-0 or lose 60-0. I can’t remember a tight game they’ve had. In the young age groups I think they should have an A division with say Joeys, Oakhill, Scots, New etc and a B with Knox, View, Waves, etc and a C with Aloys, Grammar etc, etc or whatever. Then have promotion / relegation as you go through the age groups. Would make more meaningful, safer games. Last year Joeys played Pats in the 13s and won by over 100. How is that good for anyone involved?
 

DaSchmooze

Johnnie Wallace (23)
I am sure the sportmasters do the best they can to try and create good competition but the talent pools seem so lopsided that it may be impossible to do, especially in the younger age groups. My sons’ team will either win 60-0 or lose 60-0. I can’t remember a tight game they’ve had. In the young age groups I think they should have an A division with say Joeys, Oakhill, Scots, New etc and a B with Knox, View, Waves, etc and a C with Aloys, Grammar etc, etc or whatever. Then have promotion / relegation as you go through the age groups. Would make more meaningful, safer games. Last year Joeys played Pats in the 13s and won by over 100. How is that good for anyone involved?
A system like that exists in the girls IGSA Competition, but it works because they are all in the same tent (24 schools I believe). The Senior First Grade division has the top 8 schools for that sport in it, 2nd grade has the next best 8 and so on. You can go all the way down to 4th grade in some sports and still find a schools Firsts playing in that grade. A school can choose to prioritise one or two sports and the larger ones prioritise them all.

But again, the system works because they are all in the same collection of schools (not GPS/CAS/ISA)
 

ap1

Allen Oxlade (6)
Hi ap1, I am just a CAS parent but I do know a little bit about what you are saying.

Across the CAS schools, come CAS comp time, the A teams will play each other, guess that makes sense, but like you, there will be some serious mismatching. From what I know/have heard Knox and Waverley have depth, so the results will be not good, to say the least, like game over after 10 mins.
Beyond the A teams then there will be a complete mismatch of graded teams and schools playing each other to fill out the round.
Soccer and AFL have helped caused this, so unless the strong CAS rugby schools are able to merge, 1 day if nothing changes, with another strong entity we could face the same conclusion.
It would be wonderful to merge but from feedback in this forum it would not be welcomed, so I guess who knows where from here!

Keen to hear other peoples thoughts!
The thing I can't understand is the schools and CAS know these mismatches exist. Touch wood there never is, but if there was a life changing injury to one of the players in these known mismatched games, then the school and CAS are going to find themselves in real trouble
 

DaSchmooze

Johnnie Wallace (23)
The thing I can't understand is the schools and CAS know these mismatches exist. Touch wood there never is, but if there was a life changing injury to one of the players in these known mismatched games, then the school and CAS are going to find themselves in real trouble
This is very true. But whilst they (being the school heads) prioritise the prestige of the CAS/GPS brands over player welfare, then things will not change.
 

WLF3

Darby Loudon (17)
This is very true. But whilst they (being the school heads) prioritise the prestige of the CAS/GPS brands over player welfare, then things will not change.
Guys, It's not as carefree as you say, the As teams play each other, which is probably correct, don't forget boys from all schools also play club etc so anyone in an A team should be up to it. After that level, the sports masters are very careful in every program, that is why some schools Bs play others Cs etc.

However I do think this situation will only get worse if Rugby keeps losing players and parents opt for the softer ball sports.

The other major issue is where does it all stop eg is it only rugby where, for example, the CAS has more than 6 schools in it, what about all the other winter and summer sports. I am sure there are mismatches in every sport and the strong rugby schools won't necessarily align to the strong soccer schools etc. It probably isn't all just about physicality, injuries can happen in any sport. It is a logistical nightmare, as the sports masters don't only work on the Rugby schedule, but maybe Rugby could be the exception to the rule.

The truth is, there are brands here, and they are running a business as well as a school, so any such decision is a tough one.
 
Guys, It's not as carefree as you say, the As teams play each other, which is probably correct, don't forget boys from all schools also play club etc so anyone in an A team should be up to it. After that level, the sports masters are very careful in every program, that is why some schools Bs play others Cs etc.

However I do think this situation will only get worse if Rugby keeps losing players and parents opt for the softer ball sports.

The other major issue is where does it all stop eg is it only rugby where, for example, the CAS has more than 6 schools in it, what about all the other winter and summer sports. I am sure there are mismatches in every sport and the strong rugby schools won't necessarily align to the strong soccer schools etc. It probably isn't all just about physicality, injuries can happen in any sport. It is a logistical nightmare, as the sports masters don't only work on the Rugby schedule, but maybe Rugby could be the exception to the rule.

The truth is, there are brands here, and they are running a business as well as a school, so any such decision is a tough one.
Shut up Frank
 

Flavio

Ward Prentice (10)
On solution would be to try and rank each player and add the total to get a team rank. 1 point for each year of club rugby, 1 pint for each year of school rugby 2 points for each year of rep rugby to get a rough idea of the experience of each player.
 

jase hitchman

Frank Row (1)
On solution would be to try and rank each player and add the total to get a team rank. 1 point for each year of club rugby, 1 pint for each year of school rugby 2 points for each year of rep rugby to get a rough idea of the experience of each player.
Do you struggle in areas that require you to use your brain sometimes Flavio? Because thats shocking
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
The thing I can't understand is the schools and CAS know these mismatches exist. Touch wood there never is, but if there was a life changing injury to one of the players in these known mismatched games, then the school and CAS are going to find themselves in real trouble

Look, I've been banging on about this for years. This post (https://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/schoolboy-rugby-a-modest-proposal/) is almost ten years old, yet nothing changes. But here goes again. The old school groupings are not fit for purpose. This is clearest in the GPS, where no fewer than three schools (TAS, High, Grammar) field their 1st XV in the 3rd XV competition. While Cranbrook and Trinity produce a good side once in a while, St Aloysius has not been competitive for some time, and the CAS competition is usually fought out between Knox, Barker and Waverley.

What's needed is a competition of (at least) three divisions. Rankings should be based primarily on the number of teams fielded, and the attitude of the school towards its Rugby program. Promotion and relegation should be possible if schools improve their programs or want to taper down. It would be healthier for everyone if Barker and Waverley slug it out with Joeys and Riverview in Division 1, while St Aloysius, St Andrews and Grammar play against appropriate opposition in Division 3. Obviously some schools could be unhappy about where they're graded initially, but over time things would sort themselves out. You could still have GPS, CAS, ISA teams... they'd just be picked from different divisions, but that's OK. In any case, the new pathways have rendered those schools representative games less significant than they once were.
 

FrankGalluzo

Bob McCowan (2)
Look, I've been banging on about this for years. This post (https://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/schoolboy-rugby-a-modest-proposal/) is almost ten years old, yet nothing changes. But here goes again. The old school groupings are not fit for purpose. This is clearest in the GPS, where no fewer than three schools (TAS, High, Grammar) field their 1st XV in the 3rd XV competition. While Cranbrook and Trinity produce a good side once in a while, St Aloysius has not been competitive for some time, and the CAS competition is usually fought out between Knox, Barker and Waverley.

What's needed is a competition of (at least) three divisions. Rankings should be based primarily on the number of teams fielded, and the attitude of the school towards its Rugby program. Promotion and relegation should be possible if schools improve their programs or want to taper down. It would be healthier for everyone if Barker and Waverley slug it out with Joeys and Riverview in Division 1, while St Aloysius, St Andrews and Grammar play against appropriate opposition in Division 3. Obviously some schools could be unhappy about where they're graded initially, but over time things would sort themselves out. You could still have GPS, CAS, ISA teams... they'd just be picked from different divisions, but that's OK. In any case, the new pathways have rendered those schools representative games less significant than they once were.
100%
 

DaSchmooze

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Look, I've been banging on about this for years. This post (https://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/schoolboy-rugby-a-modest-proposal/) is almost ten years old, yet nothing changes. But here goes again. The old school groupings are not fit for purpose. This is clearest in the GPS, where no fewer than three schools (TAS, High, Grammar) field their 1st XV in the 3rd XV competition. While Cranbrook and Trinity produce a good side once in a while, St Aloysius has not been competitive for some time, and the CAS competition is usually fought out between Knox, Barker and Waverley.

What's needed is a competition of (at least) three divisions. Rankings should be based primarily on the number of teams fielded, and the attitude of the school towards its Rugby program. Promotion and relegation should be possible if schools improve their programs or want to taper down. It would be healthier for everyone if Barker and Waverley slug it out with Joeys and Riverview in Division 1, while St Aloysius, St Andrews and Grammar play against appropriate opposition in Division 3. Obviously some schools could be unhappy about where they're graded initially, but over time things would sort themselves out. You could still have GPS, CAS, ISA teams... they'd just be picked from different divisions, but that's OK. In any case, the new pathways have rendered those schools representative games less significant than they once were.
Your applying reason and logic here Snort!

Seriously though, whenever discussions come up about this, we all tend to look at it as a Rugby problem, but to the bosses and sportsmasters its not. History, tradition, the role that sport plays in educating young men and a rough equivalence of teams far outweigh any issues of uncompetitive sides or mismatches. It's just not an issue for them. What IS an issue would be the potential loss of GPS/CAS/ISA status.

Its the same issue at play with Italy and to a lesser extent Scotland in the 6 Nations and why they will never vote for a promotion/relegation style tournament. They know that their heads will be on the chopping block first and there are real financial consequences for demotion.
 
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