NSW AAGPS 2017

[rod skellet]

Another issue with these full on "trial games" which is being combined with a qualitative process of matching similar strength schools to avoid cricket scores or injuries, is the how is the selection of players for both the 1st XV and 2nd XV.

Normally a school picks its 1st XV with the next best 7 players selected and playing in the 2nd XV but on call as reserves for the firsts.

This has worked fine for the last 150 years in the respective comps, but this weekend we face a situation where the Scots 1sts are playing View at Lane Cove while their 2nd XV are playing Barker 1sts at Hornsby.

What does the school do for reserves? Do they take the best 7 kids from the 2nds as reserves for the firsts? Simarly Barkers 2nd XV is potentially playing Grammar 1sts at Weigal. Should their team be gutted of their best 7 players to be reserve for the firsts.

I don't have the answer but it is a issue for the GPS/CAS sports masters to conjure a solution.

 

[WLF]

Personally, it's of no consequence to me if the GPS is the premiere competition or not.
At the end of the day the GPS Premiership trophy is no more or less of a prize to the victorious GPS school than the CAS Henry Plume Shield is to the winner of the CAS comp.
However, according to recent history, you are right in pointing out that more GPS schools are in the hunt for the Premiership trophy than the 2 or 3 horse CAS race.

Many people have become accustomed to the
two-round competitions in both Associations and protest the change. I'm one of those. Some of the best games of rugby I have seen, and many people will agree, are the second round clashes between Waverley and Knox at Death Valley.

Those games have epitimised the intense tribalism and passion of schoolboy rugby. The atmosphere is second to none and being a part of those days has been the making of great memories and folklore in Waverley's rugby history.

Certain second round clashes between GPS schools have been just as memorable and have been woven into the rich folklore of those individual schools.
We are being robbed of those clashes and the second-chance opportunities to reverse first round losses. In a one-round comp home ground advantage will play a very significant role in results.

In general terms the GPS comp is stronger than the CAS comp as you've pointed out, however CAS U16s and Opens Rep teams have proven to be competitive in recent years, so the results of those matches are never a foregone conclusion.
However, the truth is GPS teams are always favourites with the bookies and GPS supporters always expect to win.
But who will ever forget the CAS U16s defeating GPS on the bell in 2014 in the inaugural U16s championships .. sorry; i had to throw that in.

As far as individual talent is concerned more GPS players go on to make further Rep honours than CAS players.
For example 21 GPS players made NSW Opens 1s or 2s last season compared to 10 CAS players.
8 GPS players made the Baa baas compared to 1 CAS player.
I'm not sure of the stats for the Aussie schoolboys and U16s NSW teams.

It's true that some GPS posters have bragged about trial results against CAS schools in the past but personally i have never placed much importance in those pre-premiership trial match results. I've always thought it was a bit of a wank for anyone to boast about trial game results.

However this years series of trial matches are obviously being taken more seriously but there's still no prize to be won at the end, so these trial games cant compare with those that will be played in the new one-round comp.
It's interesting, but ...

If this new 'trial'of trial games manages to place the weaker GPS and CAS schools in a more appropriate division so they dont get smashed most weeks, then that's a good thing, but next season needs to be a fair dinkum comp regardless.

I sincerely hope this 'trial' lasts only one season and something positive and concrete comes out of it.

Sideline,

I understand your point of view and agree some return matches are very special. I still lean towards 1 round, like it has nearly always been, if you are to win then you have to be good enough to win at home or away.

MOA99 posted some good thoughts on what a future comp could look like.
I do think there is a solid level of interest going on with these GPS/CAS games.
This week is shaping up as huge, and I believe all these games are REAL, everyone is trying their guts out to win, call them "trials"or whatever you want.

IMO, it's the winning of games that is important not the wooden trophy, but we can all differ in opinion.

I assume you and many others will be at HH this sat.
Let's hope the weather is fine and we see a number of cracking games across many schools.

 

[WLF]

Joeys beat Scots at Bellevue Hill (albeit in a trial) for the first time in yonks and now Waverley are being talked up the beat Joeys, AT HH NO LESS!!!!

If that comes to pass, good effort from Waverley.

JCL,

Not sure if the Waves are being talked up to win but we do expect a good showing, and whilst winning is great, it is the contest and gut wrenching moments that make a match.

I think the point here is that many of us want to see great games, not 50+ whitewashes.

If all goes to plan this weekend there are some great and historical match ups, and you would expect some big crowds.

Its hard to pick winners in any of these games, which is how it should be, I think.

Trust you will at HH?

 

[sidelineview]

Sideline,

I understand your point of view and agree some return matches are very special. I still lean towards 1 round, like it has nearly always been, if you are to win then you have to be good enough to win at home or away.

MOA99 posted some good thoughts on what a future comp could look like.
I do think there is a solid level of interest going on with these GPS/CAS games.
This week is shaping up as huge, and I believe all these games are REAL, everyone is trying their guts out to win, call them "trials"or whatever you want.

IMO, it's the winning of games that is important not the wooden trophy, but we can all differ in opinion.

I assume you and many others will be at HH this sat.
Let's hope the weather is fine and we see a number of cracking games across many schools.

Yeah, you continue to support your own opinions and keep saying it's REAL.
It is but it isn't.

I dont think it will break many hearts if some of these trial games are won or lost to be honest as long as the respective teams are competitive, although next week's match between Joeys and Waverley will attract plenty of interest and there should be a big crowd there. Yep, and it will bring back some fond memories for people in both camps.

But wouldn't it have been nice for the decision makers to have released a statement outlining the proposed direction of schoolboy rugby and the purpose for this new combined GPS/CAS trial format. It would have been a bonus knowing a rugby governing body had an interest in the big picture as well, especially as there is currently such a general sense of disillusionment regarding Australian rugby and it's lack of strong leadership and direction.

Such as: "The Heads of GPS and CAS schools and with interest from the NSWRU have decided to ..... the purpose of this is ..... a divisional competition is being envisaged for the purpose of ..... and possibly include other schools in the future to revive schoolboy rugby at the grassroots level ..... blah blah blah ....."

Regardless of differing opinions, schoolboy rugby remains a beacon in the bleak Australian rugby landscape.

 

[Steve harvey]

Any stand outs in the Newington vs Riverview fixture?

 

[Gary Owen III]

But wouldn't it have been nice for the decision makers to have released a statement outlining the proposed direction of schoolboy rugby and the purpose for this new combined GPS/CAS trial format. It would have been a bonus knowing a rugby governing body had an interest in the big picture as well, especially as there is currently such a general sense of disillusionment regarding Australian rugby and it's lack of strong leadership and direction.

Such as: "The Heads of GPS and CAS schools and with interest from the NSWRU have decided to ... the purpose of this is ... a divisional competition is being envisaged for the purpose of ... and possibly include other schools in the future to revive schoolboy rugby at the grassroots level ... blah blah blah ..."

I think you'll find the schools don't need nor care about NSWRU / ARU. So they will do whatever suits their own agendas. The schools are generally ALL better funded than the ARU / NSWRU and they will do what they see as fitting into their co-curricular plans.

The fact that ARU etc have left the schoolboy comps as the only real pathway for late teenage boys doesn't reflect any combined effort from both parties - rather the governing bodies failure to commit resources to this level of the pyramid. They have simply taken advantage of the situation where rugby is a big focus of private schools in NSW & Qld and the better players were getting dragged into that area (yes sometimes via scholarships).

I would not at all be surprised if some of the schools are all very happy with the single round and the subsequent 'de-powering' of the focus on rugby comps. This may already be the end product they want.

 

[brumbiesrugby]

I'd ask this question.

"Have any of the schools provided any explanation to their own parent groups as to the rationale for the change back to a one round competition?"

Clearly a couple of years ago (and probably for about 100+ years before then) the GPS schools played single round first past the post football. Then for a reason, probably not well articulated at that time either (I might be wrong) they changed to Home and Away. I guess a 5 game championship was seen as too few and in terms of the crowded agenda a 10 match Home and Away schedule seemed to work.

They have now decided to change back. There was some discussion at the time of amalgamating the competitions but that quickly came to nought.

What might be more interesting would be if they reversed the thinking and played a 1 Round competition to start with and then based on those standings played their "trial" matches against the CAS sides. So in effect the Top 4 in each comp would play the equivalent 4 from the other comp and the Bottom 4 (High and Grammar could potentially compete here initially) would play 2 CAS sides and possibly 2 others.

You would then have far more meaningful "trial" matches.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This is a co-curricular activity: it is not the raison d'être of the schools. if parents want an explanation they can ask, but if they want an explanation about this aspect i think they're probably wasting their money on an education.

 

[WLF]

Yeah, you continue to support your own opinions and keep saying it's REAL.
It is but it isn't.

I dont think it will break many hearts if some of these trial games are won or lost to be honest as long as the respective teams are competitive, although next week's match between Joeys and Waverley will attract plenty of interest and there should be a big crowd there. Yep, and it will bring back some fond memories for people in both camps.

But wouldn't it have been nice for the decision makers to have released a statement outlining the proposed direction of schoolboy rugby and the purpose for this new combined GPS/CAS trial format. It would have been a bonus knowing a rugby governing body had an interest in the big picture as well, especially as there is currently such a general sense of disillusionment regarding Australian rugby and it's lack of strong leadership and direction.

Such as: "The Heads of GPS and CAS schools and with interest from the NSWRU have decided to ... the purpose of this is ... a divisional competition is being envisaged for the purpose of ... and possibly include other schools in the future to revive schoolboy rugby at the grassroots level ... blah blah blah ..."

Regardless of differing opinions, schoolboy rugby remains a beacon in the bleak Australian rugby landscape.

Like you, I am entitled to my point of view.

I certainly agree that an explanation of this whole thing, and a future plan, would be nice to know, none of us have ever disputed this, and all said the same thing.

But as 1 shrewd poster said, why not ask your own school/sports master.
Many of us have strong enough relationships to do this.

Anyway, I know you say it is real but it isn't.
I believe it is not the trophy at the end of the season that matters but the games themselves.This is what the boys remember long term. So each game here counts.
Ask anyone to draw a picture of the wooden trophies, and we will all have a laugh, no one will have a clue.

 

[Johnny come lately]

Totally agree WLF.

JCL,

Not sure if the Waves are being talked up to win but we do expect a good showing, and whilst winning is great, it is the contest and gut wrenching moments that make a match.

I think the point here is that many of us want to see great games, not 50+ whitewashes.

If all goes to plan this weekend there are some great and historical match ups, and you would expect some big crowds.

Its hard to pick winners in any of these games, which is how it should be, I think.

Trust you will at HH?

 

[WLF]

Totally agree WLF.

Thanks JCL,

I have few supporters, but some are starting to emerge as these games proceed.


When all these current boys are in the pub, or church, pick your poison, all they will remember, and care about will be the games. not the trophies.

And the more teams you play, the more people you will meet, and again after school, and I will suggest the better our Aussie rugby boys will be because they have played more competition.

 

[pilf_enthusiast]

Congratulations to Joeys for a great win on the weekend, injuries did seem to play a part although scots ball handling wasn't up to scratch. Brian Smith and his colleagues will not be happy with the way they played and will be sure to step it up. All GPS (and CAS) schools can thank joeys for awakening THE BEAST that is Scots rugby!!!

 

[WLF]

Congratulations to Joeys for a great win on the weekend, injuries did seem to play a part although scots ball handling wasn't up to scratch. Brian Smith and his colleagues will not be happy with the way they played and will be sure to step it up. All GPS (and CAS) schools can thank joeys for awakening THE BEAST that is Scots rugby!!!

pee,

There is a poster on the CAS site, think he is a shi..stirrer, but he constantly goes on about the Knox 2017 Juggernaut being unstoppable, a lot like your awakening the BEAST of scots comment.

You will play each other, so we will see.

I think neither will ultimately win their comps, as you have called it a long way out and with an air of arrogance having just being beaten, BUT you may well be right.

Time will tell!

 

[Johnny come lately]

Agreed

JCL,

Not sure if the Waves are being talked up to win but we do expect a good showing, and whilst winning is great, it is the contest and gut wrenching moments that make a match.

I think the point here is that many of us want to see great games, not 50+ whitewashes.

If all goes to plan this weekend there are some great and historical match ups, and you would expect some big crowds.

Its hard to pick winners in any of these games, which is how it should be, I think.

Trust you will at HH?

 

[Black & White]

Any stand outs in the Newington vs Riverview fixture?

One of the Riverview wingers whose name I don't Know. He had speed to burn and scored an excellent try in the second half. He also had one disallowed.
As for Newington a team effort with a great link between the forwards and the backs. I would say they are well-drilled outfit where individual brilliance is less apparent.

 

[Johnny Rheinberger]

One of the Riverview wingers whose name I don't Know. He had speed to burn and scored an excellent try in the second half. He also had one disallowed.
As for Newington a team effort with a great link between the forwards and the backs. I would say they are well-drilled outfit where individual brilliance is less apparent.

Matt Dutallis

 

[sidelineview]

Like you, I am entitled to my point of view.

I certainly agree that an explanation of this whole thing, and a future plan, would be nice to know, none of us have ever disputed this, and all said the same thing.

But as 1 shrewd poster said, why not ask your own school/sports master.
Many of us have strong enough relationships to do this.

Anyway, I know you say it is real but it isn't.
I believe it is not the trophy at the end of the season that matters but the games themselves.This is what the boys remember long term. So each game here counts.
Ask anyone to draw a picture of the wooden trophies, and we will all have a laugh, no one will have a clue.

Do you remember the old Claytons ad? ''The drink you have when you're not having a drink''

You've lauded this concept so hard it sounds personal. I think many are sitting back seeing how it will all pan out with mixed opinions or with no opinion as yet.

It is what it is and there will no doubt be some interesting games played; such as Knox vs Scots and Waverley vs Joeys, but no number of trial games or promotion of those games will ever replace a proper competition imo.

The meaning and value of a competition Trophy or Shield doesnt need to be explained.

These games however are important for the individual players who will be vying for spots in the Rep teams and the CAS boys will confront tough opposition each week, so it'll be interesting from that point of view.

It is what it is this season but if it were to continue in the future the novelty would wear off.

If 10 games are to be played then make it 10 competition games.

So lets hope a proper competition will be formed next season involving GPS/CAS/ISA/CHS ... whoever. If that is indeed the object of the exercise.

 

[WLF]

Do you remember the old Claytons ad? ''The drink you have when you're not having a drink''

You've lauded this concept so hard it sounds personal. I think many are sitting back seeing how it will all pan out with mixed opinions or with no opinion as yet.

It is what it is and there will no doubt be some interesting games played; such as Knox vs Scots and Waverley vs Joeys, but no number of trial games or promotion of those games will ever replace a proper competition imo.

The meaning and value of a competition Trophy or Shield doesnt need to be explained.

These games however are important for the individual players who will be vying for spots in the Rep teams and the CAS boys will confront tough opposition each week, so it'll be interesting from that point of view.

It is what it is this season but if it were to continue in the future the novelty would wear off.

If 10 games are to be played then make it 10 competition games.

So lets hope a proper competition will be formed next season involving GPS/CAS/ISA/CHS . whoever. If that is indeed the object of the exercise.

Sideline,

Once again I agree with many of your points, I can assure you I have no vested interest in the change.

All I would like to see, and talking to many others who agree, are games that are consistently competitive with more schools involved, ie less 50+ blowouts.

 

[Rob hart]

Thank you Brumbies rugby.
A wonderful edit.
Did you manage to capture any footage of Scots with the ball in hand, other than when they got monstered in the tackle?
Hard to believe the match was as close as 31-28 based on these highlights.
Having a wild guess that you might be a Joeys man.
Great camera work though.

I think that might have been the only time Scots had the ball for more than 5 seconds

 

[HeresToRugby]

I think that might have been the only time Scots had the ball for more than 5 seconds

Bit harsh Rob! They will be back don't worry about that!