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Shute Shield 2012

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Andrew B Cox

Sydney Middleton (9)
Hi guys, I've been very interested in this thread, particularly as I've been quite close to these West Harbour players over the past year. There are a couple of factors here that need mentioning.

The first is that clubs tend to recruit from clubs below them, rather than above. West Harbour has suffered because it's been sitting around position 6-9 for the past few decades. The club produces players of ability but has trouble retaining them as they are quite attractive to better clubs. It makes it difficult to build performances over a number of years, because continuity is nigh impossible. For example, 18 players of first grade in 2010 had left the club before January this year. That's a lot to replace.

The other point is that player-managers need to turn players over to improve their business. A manager has little interest in the investment a club, with its part-time and volunteer staff, has made in a player's development. So if you're a good player in a mid-table club, a manager can win both ways- the promotion to a better club helps his client to play with better company and showcase his talents, and he can earn more cash because it is easier for a good club to buy from below than buy from above.

Whether Stu was involved with Steve Cummins, I can't comment. However, He'd probably have his number and may have given him a call. And quite frankly, who could blame him? He should act on Eastwood's behalf, after all , they gave him an opportunity this year.

At the end of the day, a player moves, and it is no-ones responsibility but his. Perhaps one of the greatest joys in sport is to be part of something that is greater than yourself- to build something from the ground up, and to revel in shared achievement. If a player chooses to abandon that in order to serve his ambitions, so be it. But he is the lesser for it.

Both Steve and Liam are players who make a difference at West Harbour. I'm sure the whole club will be saddened if they have chosen to depart.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Hi guys, I've been very interested in this thread, particularly as I've been quite close to these West Harbour players over the past year. There are a couple of factors here that need mentioning.

The first is that clubs tend to recruit from clubs below them, rather than above. West Harbour has suffered because it's been sitting around position 6-9 for the past few decades. The club produces players of ability but has trouble retaining them as they are quite attractive to better clubs. It makes it difficult to build performances over a number of years, because continuity is nigh impossible. For example, 18 players of first grade in 2010 had left the club before January this year. That's a lot to replace.

The other point is that player-managers need to turn players over to improve their business. A manager has little interest in the investment a club, with its part-time and volunteer staff, has made in a player's development. So if you're a good player in a mid-table club, a manager can win both ways- the promotion to a better club helps his client to play with better company and showcase his talents, and he can earn more cash because it is easier for a good club to buy from below than buy from above.

Whether Stu was involved with Steve Cummins, I can't comment. However, He'd probably have his number and may have given him a call. And quite frankly, who could blame him? He should act on Eastwood's behalf, after all , they gave him an opportunity this year.

At the end of the day, a player moves, and it is no-ones responsibility but his. Perhaps one of the greatest joys in sport is to be part of something that is greater than yourself- to build something from the ground up, and to revel in shared achievement. If a player chooses to abandon that in order to serve his ambitions, so be it. But he is the lesser for it.

Both Steve and Liam are players who make a difference at West Harbour. I'm sure the whole club will be saddened if they have chosen to depart.

2 things:
When you're playing, coaching or enjoying rugby you are part of something bigger than yourself.
Someone needs to take control of these transfers: I assume no one ever signs with a club for more than 1 year. This needs to be changed, if it can. If it can't then they need to apply restrictions on who can plate where: geographic, financial, points based. There's an answer out there but there's no will to deal with it.
 

blindsider

Billy Sheehan (19)
I agree but it seems strange that anyone would go to Randwick thinking they will be paid. Randwick rugby club is broke and they can't pay the ground hire fees to the council.

Also the guys getting paid was money coming from benefactors and sponsors pockets, not the licensed or football club... Much to the dismay of many unpaid players, coaches, managers, trainers....
 
B

Bradley

Guest
Thanks very much Andrew Cox and Rugbyleague for your insights. To suggest that Cummins was not wanted by RL is an insult to Steve. I can also tell you Parramatta Eels were also chasing hard. For someone who claims to be part of the furniture at Wests, Lindommer does tend to struggle with the facts.

By the way Andrew, what are you doing next season?
 

Andrew B Cox

Sydney Middleton (9)
Hi Bradley, At the moment I'm undecided. Danny Manu will be taking over at West Harbour, He's a terrific bloke and I'm sure he'll do well there. I've got a son who's playing league and wants to try Union as well, so I may be helping out there.

Either way, I will be watching a lot of Shute Shield. It's a great comp that needs to be supported.
 
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Bradley

Guest
Andrew I hope some good club snaps you up because you have had a lot of experience at a number of clubs. It would be a shame if rugby lost that historical knowledge you undoubtably possess.
 

rugbyisfun

Jimmy Flynn (14)
So what's the 20/20 on the new Super Rugby squad make-up regulations. I.e The CPS (core playing squad), the EPS (extended playing squad) and the new National Academy and how will the male up of these squads effect the ongoing battle of availability of players for Shute Shield (Club Rugby in general).
 
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truckandtrailor

Guest
I heard that Nathan Sievert is going to Randwick? Is there any truth to that?
 
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Balcknred

Guest
Woodhouse had NO influence on getting Steve from Hills Sports HS. The Pirates can thank the Tigers' junior coaching staff for that one: Steve tried out for the Tigers but they realised he was never going to make it in league, primarily due to his body shape, and suggested he try rugby at the Pirates (they share Concord Oval). Steve played Colts in 2009 and 10 and had little, or no, contact with Woodhouse in grade.

This is a quite unprincipled poach. If the Waratahs coaching staff had any influence on Steve moving to Eastwood they should be ashamed of themselves. And should be held to account.


I think your forgetting to mention he is also a wests junior
 

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
Hi Bradley, At the moment I'm undecided. Danny Manu will be taking over at West Harbour, He's a terrific bloke and I'm sure he'll do well there. I've got a son who's playing league and wants to try Union as well, so I may be helping out there.

Either way, I will be watching a lot of Shute Shield. It's a great comp that needs to be supported.

Andrew, if you are still interested in coaching senior rugby, but with less time committed, I know of a subbies rugby club that could be looking for coaches. PM me if you are interested.
 

Nevawaz

Bob McCowan (2)
The clubs have to start looking at ways to generate interest and support in their local areas. Playing games at a time that doesn't clash with school sport and subbies rugby could be a start for most clubs. They also need to get out in the community and market themselves to school kids & non-rugby types as a club they can be a part of and be welcomed into and is a cheaper and more local alternative to following an NRL side. Players/development officers should be going into schools etc saying "you live here, this is your team, you hate this club and that club,get down to the ground this Saturday and support your team!"
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The clubs have to start looking at ways to generate interest and support in their local areas. Playing games at a time that doesn't clash with school sport and subbies rugby could be a start for most clubs. They also need to get out in the community and market themselves to school kids & non-rugby types as a club they can be a part of and be welcomed into and is a cheaper and more local alternative to following an NRL side. Players/development officers should be going into schools etc saying "you live here, this is your team, you hate this club and that club,get down to the ground this Saturday and support your team!"

Its been tried but, sadly, no one @ westfooled gives a toss about club rugby players, or knows who they are.
 

blindsider

Billy Sheehan (19)
So Sua AND sievert coming to Randwick?? I know they were after a halfback, but not 2 of them!
Once they lost Tony luxford who joined the army, Josh Valentine filled in very well for 2011. Not sure what he's doing next year, does he have a contract?????
Sievert and/or Sua would be good. Im seeing the general manager and head coach today, so i'll see if i can get some confirmation!
 

Slash

Bill Watson (15)
Jeremy Sua is not joining Randwick
Players who have played 1st grade at other clubs carry points so maybe the points system needs looking at and to protect clubs at the bottom end have it that if you have a player from a team that finished bottom 6 the previous season then there is say a 10 point penalty?
But if a player wants to leave a club for what ever reason how do you stop him?
Wouldn't there be restraint of trade issues as there was in the league when they tried to implement the draft 20 years ago.
Gordon have issues about players leaving but aren't those issues bought on by themselves by trying to poach players from other clubs over the years
We are certainly in the silly season

Ah yes, the old restraint of trade of issue.....I LOVE it when people bring out that old chestnut......particularly when they have absolutely NFI what it actually means.

For the uninitiated, there can only be a restraint of trade when that restraint is any contractual term which seeks to restrict the freedom of a party to engage in business. If it is not the player's primary source of income, then can be no restraint. If a player wished to go from say Randwick to Easts, but somewhere in the contract with Randwick it states he can join anyone but Easts, all Randwick would need to do is prove that if the player could earn the same amount of money at Gordon, then the contractual term could be viewed as reasonable and that partiular restraint permitted.
 
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Tahboy

Guest
Thanks Slash for letting us mere plebs understand the meaning of the term "restraint of trade"
 
T

truckandtrailor

Guest
So Sua AND sievert coming to Randwick?? I know they were after a halfback, but not 2 of them!
Once they lost Tony luxford who joined the army, Josh Valentine filled in very well for 2011. Not sure what he's doing next year, does he have a contract?????
Sievert and/or Sua would be good. Im seeing the general manager and head coach today, so i'll see if i can get some confirmation!

Yeah I haven't heard too much about Sua.... but I was told that Sievert is going to Randwick and that Valentine is not contracted as yet to a S15 squad in 2012. Because of all the halfbacks around Randwick it might spark an exodus in that position from players pushing for 1st grade.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Ah yes, the old restraint of trade of issue.....I LOVE it when people bring out that old chestnut......particularly when they have absolutely NFI what it actually means.

For the uninitiated, there can only be a restraint of trade when that restraint is any contractual term which seeks to restrict the freedom of a party to engage in business. If it is not the player's primary source of income, then can be no restraint. If a player wished to go from say Randwick to Easts, but somewhere in the contract with Randwick it states he can join anyone but Easts, all Randwick would need to do is prove that if the player could earn the same amount of money at Gordon, then the contractual term could be viewed as reasonable and that partiular restraint permitted.
Doesn't there have to be a payment to the player from the club ( something like golden handcuffs in the corporate world) regardless of the primary source of income, for any restrictive clause to be enforceable?
 
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