The Wallabies Thread

[Braveheart81]

It would seem pretty clear that Carter isn't really in direct competition with Skelton for a spot in the squad. They are picked for entirely different things.

Carter has presumably missed out because Simmons, Coleman and Douglas have all been preferred ahead of him.

 

[wamberal]

Mr D.
Chek certainly has his favourites (which, I suppose is his perogerative)
Skelton, Foley, Hooper and top a lesser degree Horne
Not sure what franchise they come from

Probably a fairly successful one.

 

[fatprop]

I didn't have too many issues with Cheika's selections for the England series, especially considering who was and wasn't available. Several good prospects got some game time, with most of them looking the part, and the generation change started to happen. It so happened that we ran into a very good England team who had none of our issues.

Yeah, there wasn't exactly many other options not in the squad

 

[TOCC]

Carter missing out is a no brainer, in 2014 his Super Rugby form demanded Wallaby selection, in 2015 he earned selection on 2014 form, in 2016 he hasn't performed to the the standard required yet was still selected for thenJuly tests.

Same could be said about Skelton, however Cheika still has faith that Skelton can provide a point of difference to the other locks, I don't think he has the fitness level required but maybe Cheika is trying to change that.

Locks are a massive problem area and there is no clear solution IMO, there's a few young promising players but they lack the technical refinement, there's players like Simmons who bring the set-piece strength but lack impact in general play. I'm hoping Kane Douglas steps up and claims one of the positions.

 

[TSR]

Which coach doesn't have their favourites. Normally they are players they are familiar with who they have coached previously.

 

[The torpedo]

Carter missing out is a no brainer, in 2014 his Super Rugby form demanded Wallaby selection, in 2015 he earned selection on 2014 form, in 2016 he hasn't performed to the the standard required yet was still selected for thenJuly tests.

Same could be said about Skelton, however Cheika still has faith that Skelton can provide a point of difference to the other locks, I don't think he has the fitness level required but maybe Cheika is trying to change that.

Locks are a massive problem area and there is no clear solution IMO, there's a few young promising players but they lack the technical refinement, there's players like Simmons who bring the set-piece strength but lack impact in general play. I'm hoping Kane Douglas steps up and claims one of the positions.

Skelton would be better used coming off the bench - 10-30 mins of short-burst high-intensity play is his suiting IMO. Not playing 40-80 mins of a test match

Caydern Neville is also has a solid physical presence

 

[TOCC]

Skelton would be better used coming off the bench - 10-30 mins of short-burst high-intensity play is his suiting IMO. Not playing 40-80 mins of a test match

Caydern Neville is also has a solid physical presence

It's a liability that can't be afforded, Simmons was injured in the first quarter against England, and Douglas was injured in the first quarter in the RWC GF, both times the reserve lock had to play 60mins.

In my opinion If Skelton doesn't have the fitness level to at least play 60mins then he shouldn't be in the match day squad.

 

[dru]

It's a liability that can't be afforded, Simmons was injured in the first quarter against England, and Douglas was injured in the first quarter in the RWC GF, both times the reserve lock had to play 60mins.

In my opinion If Skelton doesn't have the fitness level to at least play 60mins then he shouldn't be in the match day squad.

Understand what you are saying. His lazy walk (cant call it a jog) from position to position just annoys. But he is better than he ever has been.

And the coaches think he offers something special. Possibly where the downside must be covered (by others), but he does offer some strength.

He'd be cactus if I was a selector, but I'm not, and I recognise why the actual selectors might think differently.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

i think hes way off from his best. definitely not the best he has ever been. he might be as fit as he has ever been but his effectiveness is way down.
it has been a very long time since we have seen skelton do what he did to set up foley for that try in the semi final. to have such a high level of skills and be that size is pretty rare. i hope he gets back to that form without compromising his fitness because the Waratahs and the Wallabies could really use that level of impact

 

[Viking]

It's a liability that can't be afforded, Simmons was injured in the first quarter against England, and Douglas was injured in the first quarter in the RWC GF, both times the reserve lock had to play 60mins.

Depends how you use your bench:

16.LHP
17.Hooker
18.THP
19. Lock
20. Backrower
21. Impact player or extra cover- A Skelton type player could fit here.
22. Halfback
23. Backs cover

In my opinion If Skelton doesn't have the fitness level to at least play 60mins then he shouldn't be in the match day squad.

Agreed. Can't believe fitness is an issue for these top class players, especially for only 60mins.

 

[Mr Doug]

Mr D.
Chek certainly has his favourites (which, I suppose is his perogerative)
Skelton, Foley, Hooper and top a lesser degree Horne
Not sure what franchise they come from

Scrubber, I remember the first time I went into the William St., Sydney Head office of the motor vehicle manufacturer which our company represented in country NSW.
I couldn't help but notice the plaque that the CEO had above his desk, which read: "He who holds the gold makes the rules"!!

 

[fatprop]

i think hes way off from his best. definitely not the best he has ever been. he might be as fit as he has ever been but his effectiveness is way down.
it has been a very long time since we have seen skelton do what he did to set up foley for that try in the semi final. to have such a high level of skills and be that size is pretty rare. i hope he gets back to that form without compromising his fitness because the Waratahs and the Wallabies could really use that level of impact

You see I think he has been doing a lot more lock work this year and that has lowered his "big moments\impact" quotient. He missed a load of preseason and took a while to get into the rhythm but his work in cleanouts and general efforts have increased a lot.

Enough to deserve a bench spot?

No, Simmons, Douglas & Coleman look most likely to share time; and I think he is competing with Timani for that impact lock option in the squad, another unit with strengths but not that lock allrounder.

 

[Slim 293]

Let's not forget about Arnold who would've been in the squad if not injured.........

Timani will obviously drop back out when he's fit.

Mumm also provides flexibility off the bench in being able to cover the backrow.............

I don't think Skelton can squeeze into the 23 without further injuries, and Carter will find it very hard to get back into the squad with Coleman there.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

You see I think he has been doing a lot more lock work this year and that has lowered his "big moments\impact" quotient. He missed a load of preseason and took a while to get into the rhythm but his work in cleanouts and general efforts have increased a lot.

Enough to deserve a bench spot?

No, Simmons, Douglas & Coleman look most likely to share time; and I think he is competing with Timani for that impact lock option in the squad, another unit with strengths but not that lock allrounder.

i get that,but personally i think thats the opposite of what he needs to be doing. the thing that made skelton such a unique and exciting prospect was that he offered something different from the other locks that have a high workrate but lack impact. the reason he has remained a viable option for the wallabies despite not being able to play 80 minutes and not being an option for our lineout was that he gave us those high impact moments which none of our other locks can give us. If skelton changes his game from being an impact player to more of a workhorse then i dont see any upside to him being in the match day 23 when we have Simmons, Doulgas, Coleman, and carter who all provide us with 80 minute workhorse options and they are all good lineout jumpers. now obviously if he keeps working on his game and can provide us with both then that will be fantastic, but as you said yourself, his games this year seem to demonstrate that with his increased workrate we are seeing less of the impact that made him great in the first place.

 

[wamberal]

I still cannot see Skelton as a Test match lock. No matter how good he is at some aspects of the positional requirements (and he is not all that good), he is a dreadful liability in the lineout.

Maybe he will do something miraculous every few games. Is it really worth carrying him for that?


No, no, and again, no.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A reality check please. Will Skelton was never great. His real strength early on was his ability to disrupt opposition mauls. He never had the fitness to give an all round performance and his really good ball carries happened about once or twice a game. His scrummaging was absolutely atrocious and his lineout work non-existent.

These days, he doesn't even make the line breaks he occasionally did previously. His scrummaging appears to have improved - his head doesn't seem to be protruding from the scrum as it used to do. His ruck work is abysmal, mainly made up of arriving late and flopping from his great height onto the first poor bastard who happens to be lying on the ground. His fitness is still unsatisfactory and he cannot get 80 minutes into a game.

ATM Skelton is not playing anywhere near test standard rugby and ought not to be in the squad. Despite our problems in the second row, we are much better served with Douglas, Arnold and Coleman. If a high impact player is needed on the bench, Timani would be a far better proposition and much more versatile.

 

[Braveheart81]

I still cannot see Skelton as a Test match lock. No matter how good he is at some aspects of the positional requirements (and he is not all that good), he is a dreadful liability in the lineout.

Maybe he will do something miraculous every few games. Is it really worth carrying him for that?


No, no, and again, no.

What about Timani?

At the end of the day, our lock selection is perhaps our most troubling. We have routinely been outplayed by our key opposition in those positions by a long way for several years. That's why we keep looking for someone who provides something extra in general play.

Hopefully Kane Douglas stays healthy and finds form. He's perhaps our best option to cover all facets of play.

 

[upthereds#!]

Timani off the bench wooo. Need some firepower!

 

[Slim 293]

I don't see Timani staying in the squad for too long.........

Looks to be cover for Arnold who I think is back in a few weeks?

 

[wamberal]

What about Timani?

What about him? You would have to ask Chubby. I wouldn't have a clue.



Wishful thinking, maybe?