RWC 2015 Semi Final 2 - Australia v Argentina Twickenham, Monday 19 October, 2:45 AEDT

[Braveheart81]

The strange thing for me was this game seemed like the one where we needed the "finishers" more then ever. Given Foley seemed to be struggling.

Foley kicked his first goal from the sideline to start the second half then kicked a penalty. It seemed like he'd finally found his kicking boots. By that point of the game the Wallabies had scored four tries. How exactly was Foley struggling?

He then makes the shocking error giving away the charge down try. At that point it's clear the game is likely to go down to the wire. Are you going to hook your kicker at that point and hope that the replacement kicks well straight away?

Who else do you bring Cooper on for? Beale was our best player, Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had scored 3 tries between them and were playing well.

To'omua could have come on for Giteau but Gits was playing well.

 

[jollyswagman]

My beef is the use of the term 'finisher'. Three bench players did not make it onto the ground against Scotland. I see that as their presence on the bench was simply as injury cover.

I think only Cheik knows what was behind his thinking last week. It was something completely different to how we have seen him use the bench through the TRC & pool matches and can appreciate why you are scratching your head. It will be interesting to see how he uses the bench this week but for the most part I don't mind that his decisions are not exactly "predictable."

 

[Rugbynutter39]

My 23 for semi

1 Slipper (assuming Sio out injured)
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Douglas
6 Fardy
7 Hooper
8 Pocock
9 Genia
10 Foley
11 Beale (showed should start based on last game against Scotland)
12 Giteau
13 Kuridrani
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Folau

16 TPN
17 Smith
18 Holmes
19 Mumm
20 McCalman
21 Phipps
22 To'omua
23 Horne (offers more versatility on bench than Mitchell)

 

[Brumby Runner]

Really can't see Mitchell losing his spot in any circumstances. If Izzy come back in, Beale will go to the bench despite his form against Scotland.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Foley kicked his first goal from the sideline to start the second half then kicked a penalty. It seemed like he'd finally found his kicking boots. By that point of the game the Wallabies had scored four tries. How exactly was Foley struggling?

He then makes the shocking error giving away the charge down try. At that point it's clear the game is likely to go down to the wire. Are you going to hook your kicker at that point and hope that the replacement kicks well straight away?

Who else do you bring Cooper on for? Beale was our best player, Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had scored 3 tries between them and were playing well.

To'omua could have come on for Giteau but Gits was playing well.

If Foley had not had that kick charged down I wonder where people otherwise would have scored him....

 

[jollyswagman]

My 23 for semi

1 Slipper (assuming Sio out injured)
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Douglas
6 Fardy
7 Hooper
8 Pocock
9 Genia
10 Foley
11 Beale (showed should start based on last game against Scotland)
12 Giteau
13 Kuridrani
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Folau

16 TPN
17 Smith
18 Holmes
19 Mumm
20 McCalman
21 Phipps
22 To'omua
23 Horne (offers more versatility on bench than Mitchell)

I like the looks of that team a lot. It is an interesting call to bring Beale to start over Mitchell but it got me wondering if Beale is considered a possible #13........can anyone comment on Beale's experience at #13? Last weekend was a pleasant reminder of what Kurtley has to offer over the full 80 minutes as opposed to a limited finishers role.

 

[Marcelo]

23 Horne (offers more versatility on bench than Mitchell)

Are u serious? I don't think so. Mitchell can play at 15, the most complex position at the backline. You have to catch the ball in the airs, you have to be able to kick the ball, you are the last man, etc,etc

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Are u serious? I don't think so. Mitchell can play at 15, the most complex position at the backline. You have to catch the ball in the airs, you have to be able to kick the ball, you are the last man, etc,etc

My reasoning is Beale can switch to fullback if required and Horne offers better wing/centre cover...

 

[boyo]

If the Wobs play similarly to the way that they played against the Sweaties, the Argies will hand them their arses on a platter (especially at scrums).

 

[Jellic87]

Is there an

I like the looks of that team a lot. It is an interesting call to bring Beale to start over Mitchell but it got me wondering if Beale is considered a possible #13....can anyone comment on Beale's experience at #13? Last weekend was a pleasant reminder of what Kurtley has to offer over the full 80 minutes as opposed to a limited finishers role.

Is there any word on how Sio is tracking?

I've never seen Kurtley line up at 13 to be honest But I do like the look of this team! Would never have thought of Beale as a wing option before but he couldn't do much more to enhance his chances of a start this weekend then what he's been doing however it would be hard to drop Mitchell, he's been doing his job!

 

[Lindommer]

Horne's defence will be a huge asset in these clutch matches. The Argie winger's a very dangerous opponent, as are Savea and NMS.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Really can't see Mitchell losing his spot in any circumstances. If Izzy come back in, Beale will go to the bench despite his form against Scotland.

Put it this way only reason dropped Mitchell for Beale was because of Beale's strong game against Scotland - tough one as Mitchell has been playing well but think Beale showed should start. While this is my 23 - I expect Cheika to take a more conservative approach though and start Mitchell and have Beale on the bench, but given smaller Argie back 3 this would be time to try Beale as wing option as offers more flare in attack than Mitchell - and finally put those defensive concerns about Beale largely to bed.

 

[Braveheart81]

The way I see it, we'll either stick with Mitchell on the wing or revert back to Horne. It's a hard choice either way. I'd probably stick with Mitchell as he has taken his chance well and Horne hasn't played for a couple of weeks. Whoever doesn't make the starting XV won't be in the 23.

Folau will take back the 15 jersey from Beale. Beale has been playing very well but we'll be well served by having him on the bench.

To'omua will stay in the 22 jersey.

I expect we'll see the same 23 that played Wales except for Sio assuming he is out.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The way I see it, we'll either stick with Mitchell on the wing or revert back to Horne. It's a hard choice either way. I'd probably stick with Mitchell as he has taken his chance well and Horne hasn't played for a couple of weeks. Whoever doesn't make the starting XV won't be in the 23.

Folau will take back the 15 jersey from Beale. Beale has been playing very well but we'll be well served by having him on the bench.

To'omua will stay in the 22 jersey.

I expect we'll see the same 23 that played Wales except for Sio assuming he is out.

I expect you are right but still like my 23...as really like what Beale doing at the moment - but head tells me you are right.....

 

[Groucho]

i think Cheika has a coach's interest in getting him up to 60 and maintaining him as an option in the future - and i think that is why he was on the bench - Australia don't have the depth of players to just lose players like Cooper.

but the way the Scotland game went, I don't think he could risk his unpredictability - and when the rain came, 'that was probably the end of that'. It will be interesting to see if he can make either Bench - (if we actually have 2 games left). I don't think he can.

The crucial thing about Cooper is that he can come good, and has plenty of years to return to Australian rugby if he wants. I hope he bucks the trend and returns from France a better player than when he left.

 

[Groucho]

So i think it must be asked; can we win the RWC without Pocock in the side!?

When Chieka got asked the question, he dodged it massively! He was hugely missed around the breakdown in the game against the Scots

Perhaps a bigger question is whether we can win without Pocock and Hooper in tandem. Pocock without Hooper was far less effective against Wales. Hooper without Pocock was far lesss effective against Scotland. Our best wins this year have had the Pooper together.

 

[Lee Enfield]

All I will say about the Cooper v Foley thing going on is this. There is a blinding hypocrisy when discussing any mistakes Cooper makes and mistakes Foley makes. When Cooper makes them, he is criticised and hung, drawn and quartered in the public forum, with absolute no lee way given for any good he does in the same game and there are no excuses for any of his poor play.
When Foley makes the same mistakes or other mistakes, he is cut slack, blame is often passed to others, excuses are given and in complete contrast to Cooper, it is standard practice to, as much as possible, ignore the bad plays and focus on the good plays, even though things like kicking a match winning goal at the death wouldn't have been needed if he hadn't made those poor plays.

The rule around here is - Cooper does bad, ignore the good, focus on the bad
Foley does bad, ignore the bad, focus on the good

It is clearly too much for some to judge all players by the same standards.

 

[Viking]

Foley kicked his first goal from the sideline to start the second half then kicked a penalty. It seemed like he'd finally found his kicking boots. By that point of the game the Wallabies had scored four tries. How exactly was Foley struggling?

He then makes the shocking error giving away the charge down try. At that point it's clear the game is likely to go down to the wire. Are you going to hook your kicker at that point and hope that the replacement kicks well straight away?

Who else do you bring Cooper on for? Beale was our best player, Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had scored 3 tries between them and were playing well.

To'omua could have come on for Giteau but Gits was playing well.

How was Foley struggling? Seriously? His first half was riddled with errors and poor kicking.

When Cooper did the same he was pulled at close to half-time on both occasions but when Foley does it it's fine? Like we should give him the second half to find his feet?

It would make sense to me to inject To'omua for Foley early in the second half and let Gits kick the remaining goals. I think Cheika missed his window early in the second half, then he had no option to but keep it the way it was - with the logic in your post coming into play, but then in that case I don't think Gits was playing well-enough to not let To'omua on. Gits was solid, but not exactly a constant threat.

I can understand Cheika not having faith in Cooper but not having faith in To'omua as well is a big surprise to me.

 

[chasmac]

All I will say about the Cooper v Foley thing going on is this. There is a blinding hypocrisy when discussing any mistakes Cooper makes and mistakes Foley makes. When Cooper makes them, he is criticised and hung, drawn and quartered in the public forum, with absolute no lee way given for any good he does in the same game and there are no excuses for any of his poor play.
When Foley makes the same mistakes or other mistakes, he is cut slack, blame is often passed to others, excuses are given and in complete contrast to Cooper, it is standard practice to, as much as possible, ignore the bad plays and focus on the good plays, even though things like kicking a match winning goal at the death wouldn't have been needed if he hadn't made those poor plays.

The rule around here is - Cooper does bad, ignore the good, focus on the bad
Foley does bad, ignore the bad, focus on the good

It is clearly too much for some to judge all players by the same standards.

Given that defense wins world cups then Foley picks himself.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

You guys are dreaming if you think Cooper and Foley's recent games has suggested anything but Foley to start. I will accept debate on Cooper over Foley if Foley has really poor game in semi final, but to replace Cooper with his last game against Urugray versus Foley's last 3 games against top tier nations and when 2 out of those 3 performances have been very good.

You guys on the Cooper must start for semi game are just delusional if you think there is any chance of that happening. There is no case for that what so ever.

I can't believe we are debating this.