Australia v Ireland, Sat 9th June @ 8.00pm, Suncorp Brisbane

[KOB1987]

I’m sorry, I do not get the push for Kerevi at 13. There is no doubting his individual skillset and incredible athletic ability.
However, his defence is still horrible and he just appears to find it almost impossible to gel with the other players at both the reds and the Wallabies. You get the feeling he is playing to a different game plan to the rest of his side just about every time he runs out.
I hear that he is also a stand up guy and natural leader. That’s great but he is not what we need right now at outside centre.
Kurindrani must start this test. If not then Hodge in order to find a spot for him in the side. We have Foley, Beale and Folau to create opportunity with pace to burn our wide. Our 13 needs to be a rock in defence and be able to carry the ball forward.

I think that the way Cheika operates is to balance the skill sets required across the roles of the individual players rather than find a player with the balanced skill set. It is no doubt something he's still trying to perfect and it's provided a bit of pain along the way. e.g. the convoluted barn dance. But I think he sees the primary role of the 13 to attack not defend, and look to cover any defensive weaknesses through another player, or even the structure.

I'm not saying that's necessarily a winning formula but it's what he's trying to achieve. All that said, the article which suggested Kerevi will be picked isn't necessarily correct.

 

[Derpus]

I think that the way Cheika operates is to balance the skill sets required across the roles of the individual players rather than find a player with the balanced skill set. It is no doubt something he's still trying to perfect and it's provided a bit of pain along the way. e.g. the convoluted barn dance. But I think he sees the primary role of the 13 to attack not defend, and look to cover any defensive weaknesses through another player, or even the structure.

I'm not saying that's necessarily a winning formula but it's what he's trying to achieve. All that said, the article which suggested Kerevi will be picked isn't necessarily correct.

He'd probably have a lot more success picking players for their appropriate positions rather than attempting to redefine the roles.

Maybe we don't have the cattle for that though.

 

[Joe Blow]

I think that the way Cheika operates is to balance the skill sets required across the roles of the individual players rather than find a player with the balanced skill set. It is no doubt something he's still trying to perfect and it's provided a bit of pain along the way. e.g. the convoluted barn dance. But I think he sees the primary role of the 13 to attack not defend, and look to cover any defensive weaknesses through another player, or even the structure.

I'm not saying that's necessarily a winning formula but it's what he's trying to achieve. All that said, the article which suggested Kerevi will be picked isn't necessarily correct.

I can understand that. TK is no slouch in attack either, has a good offload and a nose for the chalk. He is just much more direct.
Test rugby is a different beast. The fundamentals become even more important and mistakes are punished ten fold. I reckon TK will get the nod. Hopefully either Maddocks or Banks get a run from the bench.

 

[Up the Guts]

Perhaps, the dangers of picking an improved Kerevi are less given Ireland play a more structured game and aren't as likely to completely tear us apart in the first 40 minutes like NZ did? Would still play TK in the first test though.

 

[cyclopath]

He'd probably have a lot more success picking players for their appropriate positions rather than attempting to redefine the roles.

Maybe we don't have the cattle for that though.

Reading these foriii (thanks Dismal Pillock for awesome word), consensus on appropriate positions for a lot of players is far from being achieved! Their roles are re-defined every page!

 

[KOB1987]

He'd probably have a lot more success picking players for their appropriate positions rather than attempting to redefine the roles.

Maybe we don't have the cattle for that though.

13 is the appropriate position for Kerevi, he's just far more weighted to the attacking aspect than Kuridrani, who's more balanced attack & defence.

 

[Derpus]

Reading these foriii (thanks Dismal Pillock for awesome word), consensus on appropriate positions for a lot of players is far from being achieved! Their roles are re-defined every page!

Would fori not mean multiple forums? Or does GAGR qualify because it has multiple sub-forums?

I guess that's because we don't have the cattle, right? Folau is a full-back with a bad kicking game. Kerevi is a 13 with no defense, etc.

 

[Joe Blow]

I like Kerevi more as a 12. He creates a lot and needs strong fast runners outside him. I have not watched him a great deal this year but he previously struggled with maintaining structure in both attack and defence. His decision making in both seems to be driven by him trying to make maximum impact each time he comes in to play rather than just being a cog in a 15 part machine. He has trouble underplaying his hand when it is required.

 

[cyclopath]

Would fori not mean multiple forums? Or does GAGR qualify because it has multiple sub-forums?

I guess that's because we don't have the cattle, right? Folau is a full-back with a bad kicking game. Kerevi is a 13 with no defense, etc.

Foriii because Pillock. No, we have many cattle. I would dispute your proposition that Kerevi has no defence, and I think it is more that people have very rote ideas about what any player in a certain position must do, and they don't always gel with others' opinions.

 

[Braveheart81]

Suggestion in Irish media that Schmidt is going to rest a lot of the Leinster players for the first test and give opportunities to others.

 

[Up the Guts]

I would dispute your proposition that Kerevi has no defence, and I think it is more that people have very rote ideas about what any player in a certain position must do, and they don't always gel with others' opinions.

Kerevi was also playing as a shooter in defence at 12 earlier in the season for the Reds which would go some part of the way to explaining why his missed tackle stats are so high. His defence has been better at 13 over the last couple of weeks. Also easy for people to fit stats to their preconceived ideas about a player without taking into account the context or role the player was playing.

 

[Derpus]

Foriii because Pillock. No, we have many cattle. I would dispute your proposition that Kerevi has no defence, and I think it is more that people have very rote ideas about what any player in a certain position must do, and they don't always gel with others' opinions.

Wouldn't be much chat on these forums if we all agreed on who should do what, eh.

Suggestion in Irish media that Schmidt is going to rest a lot of the Leinster players for the first test and give opportunities to others.

I think the first test ought to be the easiest for the Irish. I doubt the Wallabies will gel in their first match back with only 6 days together. They were certainly rusty in the first three tests last year.

 

[cyclopath]

Wouldn't be much chat on these forums if we all agreed on who should do what, eh.


I think the first test ought to be the easiest for the Irish. I doubt the Wallabies will gel in their first match back with only 6 days together. They were certainly rusty in the first three tests last year.

That wasn't my point.

 

[KOB1987]

Kerevi was also playing as a shooter in defence at 12 earlier in the season for the Reds which would go some part of the way to explaining why his missed tackle stats are so high. His defence has been better at 13 over the last couple of weeks. Also easy for people to fit stats to their preconceived ideas about a player without taking into account the context or role the player was playing.

There's no doubt that he let in a couple of costly ones in gold last year and because of that some people make the assumption that he has unfixable defensive deficiencies when in reality he's no doubt learned from it and has had the right people working on it with him. It's similar to Beale being turnstiled once about 4 years ago and people continually referring to him as a 'turnstile in defence' even though it's an area he was undercoached previously and has made obvious improvement in.

 

[Derpus]

That wasn't my point.

Was your point that we only think Cheika ought to pick a certain player in a certain position because of our pre-conceived notions of what a player in that position should be doing? If i haven't missed the point, I wasn't really disagreeing.

 

[spikhaza]

Kerevi is a strong Super Rugby player but his defense just is not up to standard at test level. Him v the all blacks in Sydney was like watching a cat play with its dinner.

He has some fantastic offloading stats, fantastic attacking positioning and legwork as well as vision in attack, but his defense is too much of a weakness in my opinion

 

[TSR]

I have my concerns about Kerevi’s defence - but I wasn’t it after the Sydney Test that Cheika came out and conceded that the teams defensive strategy was a mess. If I recall correctly we appeared to have about 10 different plans during the match - all of which invoked our outside channel defenders have to cover up to 3 or 4 attackers at a time.

I’m not sure it is the fairest measure by which to determine Kerevi isn’t a test player.

 

[KOB1987]

I have my concerns about Kerevi’s defence - but I wasn’t it after the Sydney Test that Cheika came out and conceded that the teams defensive strategy was a mess. If I recall correctly we appeared to have about 10 different plans during the match - all of which invoked our outside channel defenders have to cover up to 3 or 4 attackers at a time.

I’m not sure it is the fairest measure by which to determine Kerevi isn’t a test player.

It was and they went back to a more conventional structure for the next test. Kerevi was a standout though and got dropped. It was probably a bit of both and if he does get picked I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and make the assumption that they've been working on it.

 

[KOB1987]

and he has:

 

[Derpus]

He hasn't even gone TK on the bench. Time Kerevi stepped up.

Edit: Yaaaay test rugby. Been waiting for this all damn year.