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NSW CAS Rugby 2020

Discussion in 'Schoolboy Rugby' started by rod skellet, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. WLF Phil Hardcastle (33)

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    Shows the depth that exists, but to do this these players will have to leap frog the 16as in front of them, can't see that happening in 2021. The only obvious positions that this years 15as may fill in 2021 are 1 flanker, and 1 winger all things being equal.
  2. The Coyote Frank Row (1)

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    I think the Waverley love on here is a bit overrated, most of the boys played for the Randwick 16A's at club (won by
    Lindfield) and for Randwick at state (won by Warringah) this year where they finished no where .

    NSW 1's were easily beaten by QLD 1's at the JRC, and NSW 2's had a cricket score put on them by the QLD in the
    pool game. Sadly Gen Blue selection is still a boys club.
    Mr Serious likes this.
  3. WLF Phil Hardcastle (33)

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    Agree Coyote, and I am a Waves follower.

    Prior to the final of the GPS16 1s vs CAS 1s, there was some confident talk that the Gen 1 team had already been chosen, some of which I think were obvious, but still what happens if someone else shines, so there is still a boys club, which was very evident in some positions.

    When it comes to the Lindfield and Warringah comment, I think its fair to say that the Randwick team in these 2 comps was primarily just 1 school, whereas Lindfield and Warringah was made up of many schools.
    The Waves 16a team is actually stronger than the Randwick team, with a number of key school players missing from the Randwick team, for what it's worth.

    Whilst it may be fun to speculate on school 1st XV teams for next year, a lot can, and will, change between now and then, like growth, off season training etc, so the final teams make up will be different to what is posted now.
    I suspect there will be a number of very strong teams across both associations, particularly the GPS!
    The Coyote likes this.
  4. WLF Phil Hardcastle (33)

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    I would be keen to get a response from Axe, or some other Knox followers on this team, certainly not being close enough myself, but aware of quite a few players, this team looks extremely inexperienced. It may be a building team for years to come, but if this team represents Knox 1st XV in 2020, I think it will be a very tough year!
    Big_Senditure likes this.
  5. Big_Senditure Stan Wickham (3)

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    Although there are quite a few players without 1stXV experience I believe that this Knox team could suprise many. The backs are actually quite experience with M. Stewart, O. Evans and S. Nicholl all playing in the team perviously (I think Evmeister might have forgotten S.Nicholl) and although Evans can't play CAS due to being 19, I believe Stewart and Nicholl will earn place. Also C. Barr was arguably the 2XV best player and could have easily been playing 1XV last year. Also surprises could come in the form of T. Godard at 9 who played Gen Blue U16 and J. McLeod at 12 who played U15 Gen Blue and U16 NSW League. The forwards are the worry for next year with none playing consistent 1XV last year. I feel the key forwards will be J.Black at 3 who played U16 Gen Blue, L.Chamen at 5 who played U16 Gen Blue and missed most of his maiden opens year to injury, and H. Kettles who played U16 NSW Country before arriving in Year 11 and making a big impression. If the inexperience of the forwards aren't too much I feel the class in the backs could carry Knox to the Henry Plume Shield, with the Knox backs next year arguably going to be the best of the comp.
    Googman likes this.
  6. WLF Phil Hardcastle (33)

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    Luv your passion BS, that is what makes this banter fun.
    Big_Senditure likes this.
  7. Big_Senditure Stan Wickham (3)

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    Just recently found out some big news that could have serious ramifications on Knox's season. They will be without Evans (11) due to being ineligible because of his age (turning 19 next year). Apparently all schools were fine to have him play except Trinity and therefore he will not play next year. Being the only member of the squad that played CAS and Australian Schools Champs footy last year I imagine this will be pretty devastating for Knox, although I am sure whoever his replacement is will do fine. Interested to hear opinions of whether 19 yr olds should be allowed to play, there have been exceptions made in the past with Josh Nercessian for Barker being a star player in 2018. I personally think given the circumstances, being they have been in that year group for a long enough period of time, it should be allowed. Thoughts?
  8. bring back rucking Peter Burge (5)

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    Does he turn 19 early or late in the year?
  9. Mr Huge Frank Row (1)

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    The issue of 19yo playing in Y12 is a vexed one for sure. Not going to comment on specific cases, but I agree the starting position should be that they are not eligible, since there are plenty of Y12 boys who will not turn 17 until term 2, well into the Rugby program, so it's really not OK for there to be 2+ years difference.
    That said how do you deal with the exceptions? Is it fair to deny a young man (or woman) the chance to represent their school through circumstances outside their control? I'm not sure the "leave it up to the Heads" approach is producing consistency - which is required to deliver a fair outcome for all (e.g. Evans cf. Nercessian)
  10. Hasbeen Syd Malcolm (24)

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    Dont think one 19 year old kid would make that much difference to a result myself. There would have to be a limit of one per team and no year 12 repeats.
  11. Number 7 Herbert Moran (7)

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    Agree. Especially a 19YO playing #11.
  12. carl spackler Sydney Middleton (9)

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    Any deviation from the 18 age limit is fraught with risk, particularly around precedent. I still believe that the Barker win in 2018 would not have happened without the dispensation provided to their inside centre. He was not only a very good player but also an excellent goal kicker, and played a huge role in the win at Death Valley. In the same year, his performances for Warringah Colts were strong enough for him to be selected to compete in the URC. So clearly a mistake was made allowing him to play. Waverley are still spewing about it, and rightly so.
    In Ollie's case, he has already played two years of first XV for Knox, and I have no doubt that he would strengthen their 2020 team immeasurably. Anyone suggesting that a winger won't have an impact on a team's performance is dreaming.
    If it was only Trinity objecting, I am very surprised.
    Ollie has had his turn - he would be too strong against some of the 15/16 year olds he will be up against. He has already represented NSW in 7s, and competed at the Nationals at Riverview in 2019.
    I'm sure Gordon Colts will welcome him and I'm sure many of the mates he played with and against at school with will be there to continue their friendships.
  13. bring back rucking Peter Burge (5)

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    Really depends when he turns 19. This problem isn’t going to go away. There has been a big shift in starting ages of boys in nsw schools to the extent that march appears to be the unofficial cut off and kids being held back from starting due to age based maturity. I think turning 19 in December of year 12 is much different to January of year 12.

    I know the GPS has a policy of being maximum age of 18 “Whilst at school” so late December was fine as school had finished

    Also, there has been a bit of a shift to “playing with your year group” as opposed to under 14s when your year is under 13s etc on the way through school. I think this has more to do with trying to get more kids playing rugby. It’s hard to be a couple of weeks too old and end up playing and training with 1 or 2 years above you.
  14. WLF Phil Hardcastle (33)

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    Carl and BBR, Yep this is a tough one, I do agree with Bring Back Rucking that it probably matters what month the boy turns 19, eg if it is after footy season, say after mid August, then they should be allowed to play IMO.
    Clearly nearly all the CAS schools think the same.

    Carl, the Waves weren't spewing about the Barker win in 2018, the Barker team won that game, how they did, is what still bewilders us, but champion teams..

    P.S. Also as Number 7 astutely pointed out a number 11 probably won't win you a comp!
  15. Jim Belshaw Syd Malcolm (24)

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    I am cross posting this on the CAS and GPS forums. Some of you will be aware that TAS Head Murray Guest was killed in a car crash. His memorial service was this morning and TAS has posted it to youtube. Its' quite long, although the first 57 mins or so are photos of Murray. Murray went to Grammar and taught at Cranbrook and Shore. There are some stories here that you might like assuming I get the upload right. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F9nC16hrL7o?start=8813" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  16. Hasbeen Syd Malcolm (24)

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    A man of generous spirit WLF.
  17. sidelineview Banned

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    It's really simple: whatever the relevant CAS Rule states is what should be followed, with no exceptions.
    Headmasters shouldn't have the power to decide outside of the relevant rule. It sets a precedent and sets up controversy and inconsistency for future seasons.

    I agree with Carl: anyone who thinks a #11 can't influence a team to win games and ultimately a comp is dreaming. Example, prolific try scorer Jackson Mohi 2016 Waverley.

    Rules are designed to create an even playing field. It's as simple as that.

    From the CAS website:

    Dispensation is required
    The following criteria must be met before a student can progress to assessment:
    • The date at which they turn 19 must be after the last round of the competition (in 2018 that is after August 11th).
    • The student must have been enrolled at the school for the February Census date for year 10 of their cohort (for 2018 they must have been at the school in year 10 in 2016)
    • The player must be below the height and weight guidelines set by RA. The current guidelines are H190.73cm W101.89kg
    • The player cannot have played 1sts and 2nds for the previous 2 years i.e. it cannot be his 3rd year in 1sts or 2nds
    All schools have a duty of care to ensure that players are playing in the appropriate age grade competition, based on the player’s physical development in conjunction with their ability and/or experience. Hence, players with dispensation to play down or up two age groups, may then NOT play any competition games in their birth year age group or eligible grades. In exceptional circumstances, it may be mandated that a player participates in a specific age group either within or outside the player’s eligible grades.
    Running_rugby_1954 likes this.
  18. WLF Phil Hardcastle (33)

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    Can't Disargue with this Sideline, but exceptions have been made, not sure why.

    Jackson Mohi was certainly an example of a #11 assisting to win games and comps, but suggest he is an exception, either way, if the rules you have highlighted were followed, there would be no debate.
    Which I believe is your point.
    Running_rugby_1954 likes this.
  19. Flavio Allen Oxlade (6)

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  20. sidelineview Banned

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    Exceptional players emerge every year in any given team, in any given position.
    The presence or absence of any of these exceptional players can mean the difference between a team winning the comp or coming second.

    Therefore, the argument that ''it's only one player'' doesn't wash.

    It's also worthy to note that the CAS Rules include "All schools have a duty of care ..."
    Schools that take a punt and apply for dispensations for players who obviously do not meet the criteria are doing the wrong thing in my opinion.
    Running_rugby_1954 likes this.

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