Shute Shield 2013

[MACCA]

The problem comes when you promise 30 guys a starting spot, and use that ploy to retain and recruit.

Isn't the off season fun! I know people close to the Wicks and the observations are that they have created a competitive environment that provides opportunity for ambitious players. So far that approach has resulted in the establishment of a Sevens programme and a strong off season training programme . The Wicks did win the Bowral Sevens and also came fourth in the (2nd tier international standard) Singapore sevens, so they must be doing something well!
Also, Simon Poidevin, Warwick Waugh & Anthony Bell as Directors could hardly be called novices surely! Wade Kelly does have a bit to prove though, no argument there.
The Randwick revival may take a year or two however has been building up to it if Colts are any guide.

 

[MACCA]

Id be suprised if that was the case anywhere - doomed to fail if so

Totally agree. In an article about the Wicks Rugby News listed about 8 new players for the Wicks with 3 or 4 being eligible for Colts - cant see where "the 30 players are that have been promised starting spots and will walk out if they miss out" are. Perhaps someone is looking and talking about Randwick through the green eyes of jealousy.

 

[the coach]

After 2012 Randwick needed a complete clean out. I suspect most of the criticism within the club is coming from those who have been in the same roles for many years and have lost out in the clean out. Like others, I agree the jury is still out on whether Stallion Rugby is the answer, but at least Wade Kelly can't point the finger at anyone else if he fails as he appears to have complete control. Good to see some of the old players like Poidevin and Waugh rolling their sleeves up and getting involved at all levels instead of just turning up at the sponsors tent every home game which has been the case with some other ex-players. Always dangerous to try to predict what's going to happen several months before the season has started so we can only wait and see. However, like the Waratahs, I doubt Randwick's problems will be overcome in just one season. The collapse of the licenced club and the reported problems with the licenced club at Easts could be symptomatic of a decline in interest in rugby in the eastern suburbs: let's hope not. It has often been said in the past that Australian Rugby needs a strong Randwick, but that is clearly no longer the case. Sydney Uni (through many years of hard work and professional management) has replaced Randwick as the glamour club in Sydney and good luck to them.

 

[en_force_er]

What I was alluding to is the older set are saying it is going to implode due to the new guys taking over with no experience. The new guys can obviously start from a low base but the older guys are saying that there could be mass player walk outs there based on some 'leaked' depth charts which had a few 1st graders pencilled in for 2nd grade. All fun & games regardless.

The leaked depth chart, the scourge of amateur sport.

 

[marlin]

After 2012 Randwick needed a complete clean out. I suspect most of the criticism within the club is coming from those who have been in the same roles for many years and have lost out in the clean out. Like others, I agree the jury is still out on whether Stallion Rugby is the answer, but at least Wade Kelly can't point the finger at anyone else if he fails as he appears to have complete control. Good to see some of the old players like Poidevin and Waugh rolling their sleeves up and getting involved at all levels instead of just turning up at the sponsors tent every home game which has been the case with some other ex-players. Always dangerous to try to predict what's going to happen several months before the season has started so we can only wait and see. However, like the Waratahs, I doubt Randwick's problems will be overcome in just one season. The collapse of the licenced club and the reported problems with the licenced club at Easts could be symptomatic of a decline in interest in rugby in the eastern suburbs: let's hope not. It has often been said in the past that Australian Rugby needs a strong Randwick, but that is clearly no longer the case. Sydney Uni (through many years of hard work and professional management) has replaced Randwick as the glamour club in Sydney and good luck to them.

This is a very balanced response. There are clealry problems at Randwick, but if I were Wade Kelly I would have done exactly what he did. I suspect the results may not mainifest in 2013 (maybe they will) but clearly the Wicks are trying to overcome what were some truly horrible decsions made in 2012. I don't belive that demographic factors should be working against our game in the East - if so then we are truly in trouble, real trouble.

Speaking from personal expereince, the amount of work involved in running an effective and prosperous rugby club is massive. My club (Manly) has 1/2 a full time employee, Uni has 4 full time employees, plus the best connected band of volunteers in Sydney. It is a challenge when just considering that, not including the fact their working budget is 2/12 times bigger than the next clubs.

Still we all start on 0 points, thats what makes the offseason so much fun.....

 

[the coach]

This is a very balanced response. There are clealry problems at Randwick, but if I were Wade Kelly I would have done exactly what he did. I suspect the results may not mainifest in 2013 (maybe they will) but clearly the Wicks are trying to overcome what were some truly horrible decsions made in 2012. I don't belive that demographic factors should be working against our game in the East - if so then we are truly in trouble, real trouble.

Speaking from personal expereince, the amount of work involved in running an effective and prosperous rugby club is massive. My club (Manly) has 1/2 a full time employee, Uni has 4 full time employees, plus the best connected band of volunteers in Sydney. It is a challenge when just considering that, not including the fact their working budget is 2/12 times bigger than the next clubs.

Still we all start on 0 points, thats what makes the offseason so much fun...

We obviously also rely heavily on volunteers.
My biggest concern is that the new broom doesn't piss off the volunteers!

 

[Tah and feathered]

In 2012 all randwick grades made the finals except 2st grade so why did all the coaches in grade and colts ( except 1 in colts who coached at Scots) need to be replaced
Why did most managers and support staff need tone flicked
Plus they were replaced by Stallion rugby personnel , Kelly's brother and father and fathers best mate.
Scots guys got the plumb job of doing the 7s and the only people getting paid are the coaches.
Kelly has ripped the soul of the club and if it goes pear shape who will pick up the pieces as the guys who do the hard slog work hav

 

[Tah and feathered]

In 2012 all randwick grades made the finals except 2st grade so why did all the coaches in grade and colts ( except 1 in colts who coached at Scots) need to be replaced
Why did most managers and support staff need tone flicked
Plus they were replaced by Stallion rugby personnel , Kelly's brother and father and fathers best mate.
Scots guys got the plumb job of doing the 7s and the only people getting paid are the coaches.
Kelly has ripped the soul of the club and if it goes pear shape who will pick up the pieces as the guys who do the hard slog work hav

Have been sent packing. All under poidevans watch and he was the one who moved Morrison out to bring in maxwell

 

[the coach]

In 2012 all randwick grades made the finals except 2st grade so why did all the coaches in grade and colts ( except 1 in colts who coached at Scots) need to be replaced
Why did most managers and support staff need tone flicked
Plus they were replaced by Stallion rugby personnel , Kelly's brother and father and fathers best mate.
Scots guys got the plumb job of doing the 7s and the only people getting paid are the coaches.
Kelly has ripped the soul of the club and if it goes pear shape who will pick up the pieces as the guys who do the hard slog work hav

I guess it depends on your criteria for measuring success.
For a club with Randwick's record to only win 3 premierships since 2004 (ie 1 x 3rd grade and 2 x 4th grade) in spite of several GF appearances is not considered good enough.
Although all grades except 1sts made the (8 team) playoffs, the club only won 28 of 64 games across the 4 grades.
We did suffer a massive injury toll, but as most of the staff had been in place for many years I believe changes were needed.

 

[the coach]

Have been sent packing. All under poidevans watch and he was the one who moved Morrison out to bring in maxwell

Maxwell did have an excellent coaching record at the club prior to 2012 and I'd suggest most supporters saw his appointment as a positive move at the time.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

Any truth to the rumour that I heard today that Premier Rugby Clubs (i.e. Shute Shield) will decrease their number of teams to 2 grade and 2 colts.. Belly, any ideas?

First I've heard of it.
Maybe it's something that's come out of the Premier Rugby Review Report from ARU................

Everyone has an opinion on this, which more than anything indicates to me that there's a significant recognition from all walks of life that change is required. But the issue is, no-one will ever agree on exactly what the format should be.
My personal opinions vary dramatically from that of our club, however I am duty bound to table my club's view at the meetings, which is fine. But one thing I am certain of is that there will never be consensus from within the clubs. Whoever the governing union is will need to make the decision themselves.

 

[Done that]

The ARU's expressed view a few years ago , was that it would like a competition of 3 senior grades & one colts team.
This has surfaced again on a couple of occasions since.

 

[It is what it is]

Speaking from personal expereince, the amount of work involved in running an effective and prosperous rugby club is massive. My club (Manly) has 1/2 a full time employee, Uni has 4 full time employees, plus the best connected band of volunteers in Sydney. It is a challenge when just considering that, not including the fact their working budget is 2/12 times bigger than the next clubs.

Still we all start on 0 points, thats what makes the offseason so much fun...

Someone may be able to confirm the correct number of full time employees Uni has, but I understand they have 4 full time coaches as well as other full time employees.
Congrat's on your turnaround result down at Manly too.
A lot of good work and well done.

 

[Knuckles]

The ARU's expressed view a few years ago , was that it would like a competition of 3 senior grades & one colts team.
This has surfaced again on a couple of occasions since.

I have seen and studied the ARU Premier Rugby Review Belly is referring to. They quite clearly state in it that they feel premier rugby should be 1 grade and 1 colts sides.

They clearly want a 3rd tier comp, but arent prepared to determine which clubs are in or out of it. They state that quite a few clubs financial position is so critical at the moment, that at any given time up to 6 clubs could fall over immediately........yet they are not prepared to help.

They also stupidly compared match stats in Premier Rugby to that of Super Rugby. Where the Super Rugby match stats were higher than Premier Rugby they sang the praises of successful coaching programs at Super level. An example of this was in Super Rugby, the success rate for penalty conversions is higher than Premier. So they were very complimentary in the coaching of goal kickers at Super Rugby level. Then when the Premier comps were higher than Super Rugby, they criticised the professionalism of the opposing sides in Premier Rugby. Example being, there is more line-breaks and more tries scored in Premier Rugby than there is in Super Rugby (well duh!). Rather than say this came about because of the attacking focus of the Premier Rugby sides, they said it was because defensive sides in Premier Rugby aren't as well executed as they are in Super Rugby.

They talk about the possibility of introducing a salary cap in Shute Shield. Yet have no idea how to implement it, what it should be or how to police it. They spoke about how one club has an advantage over all others by being in a position to offer tertiary degrees to players joining that particular club and valued those at $500,000 per annum. Yet they say they would be reluctant to limit that as it's denying young people educational opportunities.

They compared the coaching programs, strength and conditioning programs, medical programs and gym facilities of all clubs. The outcome was that they will support those clubs with the resources they advocate rather than help other clubs achieve that level.

For me personally, they have got it all around backwards. It's clear, in Shute Shield there is a benchmark club. And good on them for achieving that. But rather than look to discover ways on how the governing body, the keeper of the game in this country, can help clubs below the benchmark achieve similar standards, thus raising the level of the competition, the level of the teams, the level of the individuals, ultimately benefitting the national interest, they are happy to just plod along, watch clubs die, and support the benchmark.

So I ask you all this.

What would happen if the NRL behaved like that?

 

[Pete King]

In 2012 all randwick grades made the finals except 2st grade so why did all the coaches in grade and colts ( except 1 in colts who coached at Scots) need to be replaced
Why did most managers and support staff need tone flicked
Plus they were replaced by Stallion rugby personnel , Kelly's brother and father and fathers best mate.
Scots guys got the plumb job of doing the 7s and the only people getting paid are the coaches.
Kelly has ripped the soul of the club and if it goes pear shape who will pick up the pieces as the guys who do the hard slog work hav

Sounds like a bit of a vendetta tah? Randwick first grade lost 9 or ten straight and only finished ahead of Penrith. the lower grades benefited from the split competition after the first rounds and no side other then 3rd colts made the grand final.

Things had to change there good luck to kelly and of course he is going to bring in people that he knows and trusts that is how the world works. Interesting to note that both kelly brother have played at the club. Also I believe from my mate that plays there that the 1st grade colts coach is coaching second grade and the 2nd grade colts coach is now first grade colts coach.

 

[Pete King]

Isn't the off season fun! I know people close to the Wicks and the observations are that they have created a competitive environment that provides opportunity for ambitious players. So far that approach has resulted in the establishment of a Sevens programme and a strong off season training programme . The Wicks did win the Bowral Sevens and also came fourth in the (2nd tier international standard) Singapore sevens, so they must be doing something well!
Also, Simon Poidevin, Warwick Waugh & Anthony Bell as Directors could hardly be called novices surely! Wade Kelly does have a bit to prove though, no argument there.
The Randwick revival may take a year or two however has been building up to it if Colts are any guide.

Anthony bell has moved on and Bob Dwyer was appointed as football club president according to their website. The selection commitee of Gafney, whitaker and frier who appointed Kelly surely arent novices eithier

 

[Tah and feathered]

No vendetta just don't understand the logic of getting rid of a lot of good people who have worked hard for the club just because 1st grade had a poor year. Lets see how the season goes

 

[the coach]

I have seen and studied the ARU Premier Rugby Review Belly is referring to. They quite clearly state in it that they feel premier rugby should be 1 grade and 1 colts sides.

They clearly want a 3rd tier comp, but arent prepared to determine which clubs are in or out of it. They state that quite a few clubs financial position is so critical at the moment, that at any given time up to 6 clubs could fall over immediately....yet they are not prepared to help.

They also stupidly compared match stats in Premier Rugby to that of Super Rugby. Where the Super Rugby match stats were higher than Premier Rugby they sang the praises of successful coaching programs at Super level. An example of this was in Super Rugby, the success rate for penalty conversions is higher than Premier. So they were very complimentary in the coaching of goal kickers at Super Rugby level. Then when the Premier comps were higher than Super Rugby, they criticised the professionalism of the opposing sides in Premier Rugby. Example being, there is more line-breaks and more tries scored in Premier Rugby than there is in Super Rugby (well duh!). Rather than say this came about because of the attacking focus of the Premier Rugby sides, they said it was because defensive sides in Premier Rugby aren't as well executed as they are in Super Rugby.

They talk about the possibility of introducing a salary cap in Shute Shield. Yet have no idea how to implement it, what it should be or how to police it. They spoke about how one club has an advantage over all others by being in a position to offer tertiary degrees to players joining that particular club and valued those at $500,000 per annum. Yet they say they would be reluctant to limit that as it's denying young people educational opportunities.

They compared the coaching programs, strength and conditioning programs, medical programs and gym facilities of all clubs. The outcome was that they will support those clubs with the resources they advocate rather than help other clubs achieve that level.

For me personally, they have got it all around backwards. It's clear, in Shute Shield there is a benchmark club. And good on them for achieving that. But rather than look to discover ways on how the governing body, the keeper of the game in this country, can help clubs below the benchmark achieve similar standards, thus raising the level of the competition, the level of the teams, the level of the individuals, ultimately benefitting the national interest, they are happy to just plod along, watch clubs die, and support the benchmark.

So I ask you all this.

What would happen if the NRL behaved like that?

Knuckles, I assume the benchmark club you're referring to is Sydney Uni.
If so, let me ask you this:
If all Shute Shield teams were at the same level as Uni would the Shute Shield then provide the holy grail 3rd tier competition (in Sydney at least) that everyone dreams of?

 

[Dave Beat]

Knuckles, I assume the benchmark club you're referring to is Sydney Uni.
If so, let me ask you this:
If all Shute Shield teams were at the same level as Uni would the Shute Shield then provide the holy grail 3rd tier competition (in Sydney at least) that everyone dreams of?

Coach you been around to long and must have read a number of posts.
If all teams had the same personel as Uni it would be the holy grail, undoubted - 12 teams full of super players fantastic for family fan base that wants to enjoy a day of rugby. How good would it be for NSWRU, and ARU.

We all know that it is not the case - rather large difference between # 1 & # 12, hence a 3rd tier may consist of of georgraphic 6 team rep comp (Nth Hbr / Sth Hbr / West / NSW Count / ACT / Other (maybe Sth Dist / Kiama / Illawarra etc), at Shute Shield season end.
It would keep the super players / fringe WOBs fit for possible call ups

 

[2bluesfan]

I have seen and studied the ARU Premier Rugby Review Belly is referring to.

Are you in a position to make this available to others? I'd be interested in reading it.