TRC 2022: All Blacks v Argentina

[zer0]

Because I'm a punishingly boring cnut, a simple visualisation of Foster's tenure compared to Henry's over the same number of tests (n currently = 23) against T1 (6N + TRC) opposition. I could also look at chucking in Hansen post-2015 (as 2012-2015 is basically just a continuation), but Henry is both cleaner (comparing absolute start of both tenures) and more alike in that he also had to clean up after his immediate predecessors mess. Though he obviously didn't have a hand in producing said mess and actually did a very good job of fixing it.

 

[mst]

Accompanied - yet again - by the most clueless attack in World Rugby.

Seriously for all the talent they have, I haven't seen a decent set-piece backline move from the ABs more than once a season in about a decade.

One of my favourite stats is that for a team with allegedly two of the best opensides in the game playing in their starting 15, they have the fewest pilfers of all the teams in the RC.

 

[Pfitzy]

Because I'm a punishingly boring cnut, a simple visualisation of Foster's tenure compared to Henry's over the same number of tests (n currently = 23) against T1 (6N + TRC) opposition. I could also look at chucking in Hansen post-2015 (as 2012-2015 is basically just a continuation), but Henry is both cleaner (comparing absolute start of both tenures) and more alike in that he also had to clean up after his immediate predecessors mess. Though he obviously didn't have a hand in producing said mess and actually did a very good job of fixing it.

Hansen has a massive role to play in where the ABs are right now. He didn't get a mess, so had nothing to fix, and as a result I think things really started to slip under his tenure.

 

[Pfitzy]

holy crap, 760 comments in 2 hours.....

Up to 992 as I type this.

 

[qwerty51]

Hansen has a massive role to play in where the ABs are right now. He didn't get a mess, so had nothing to fix, and as a result I think things really started to slip under his tenure.

They won a RWC, equalled a record win streak, have record victories and never lost the Bledisloe. That's a bit ridiculous, I reckon.

He's only to blame if he went in hard for Foster's appointment.

 

[tragic]

The ABs really should have won that. Australia have traditionally had a mortgage on creating more opportunity, scoring more tries but losing on the scoreboard.
I’ve not seen that from the darkness before.
Doubt it will happen again next week.

 

[Pfitzy]

They won a RWC, equalled a record win streak, have record victories and never lost the Bledisloe. That's a bit ridiculous, I reckon.

What did he do to improve the situation and do some forward planning? They were winning, so the answer is "not much".

After Henry fixed the initial mess, he and the leadership group pushed for "even better".
Under Hansen, when personnel started to leave, it was less about sustained excellence and more about bringing in a few whizz kids who could win on bounce of the ball.
Under pressure, when everyone else caught up on standards, is where they waned. Wins were still there, performances were not.

Foster inherited a side in decay, and doesn't seem to have a plan to fix it.

 

[qwerty51]

- Another lock should've been developed for succession planning, but it's hard to break up Whitelock/Retallick.
- Laumape should've gone to the RWC over SBW, and he would've stuck around in NZ. I think they're missing the power centre at 12 that many other teams have, and they had with Nonu.
- SBW should never have been picked again after he cost them the Lions series in 2017.
- When A Savea came onto the scene, he should've exclusively played at 7 and nowhere else.
- The whole Barrett/Mounga situation was poorly handled, including Damo. Too many changes and back and forth.

That's probably my only criticism of Hansen's coaching and all post-2015.

But come on, the All Blacks' performances were never sustainable, half of it is definitely the other teams catching up (just not us so it's less apparent). Anyone who watches Northern Hemisphere rugby would understand this; the quality of the competitions has seriously risen in the last 10 years.

 

[Pfitzy]

All good points. And the success can mask the fact that some guys just aren't going to make it. Tough to change a winning combo - ask Australian cricket.

Savea to 7 and Captain is probably the first move I'd make, as well as picking a backrow that balances around him at 6 & 8 in their core roles. There will be some short term pain but that is the nature of change.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Because I'm a punishingly boring cnut, a simple visualisation of Foster's tenure compared to Henry's over the same number of tests (n currently = 23) against T1 (6N + TRC) opposition. I could also look at chucking in Hansen post-2015 (as 2012-2015 is basically just a continuation), but Henry is both cleaner (comparing absolute start of both tenures) and more alike in that he also had to clean up after his immediate predecessors mess. Though he obviously didn't have a hand in producing said mess and actually did a very good job of fixing it.

View attachment 14614

I too have been consulting Modern Science in order to graphically chart these trends both scientifically and rationally.

 

[PhilClinton]

Gotta hand it to Cheika, I don’t think he’s developed much coaching wise, but he knows how to get a team firing during the start of his tenure.

The Pumas are really shaping into the dark horse to push for a RWC23 semi final spot.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Not only was that the first time AB have lost to Argentina at home, it's the first time they've EVER lost three consecutive home Tests.

Foster has defended swapping out the front row so early by saying there were soft tissue issues with both de Groot & Lomax but failed to explain why Samisoni was also dragged. And that, to me, was the turning point. Scrum, lineout & maul all fell away badly & even if that last throw wasn't crooked I'm not sure we'd have scored to be close, or that RMo would've converted for the draw.

Cane should do the right thing & step aside - use the mental health card if he needs to, no-one's gunna bag him for it - with Ardie taking the 7 shirt & captain's armband. I know he wants to play 8 but right now we need him at 7 & a proper 8 at 8. Whether Sotutu is that 8 I don't know but we're never going to know if he doesn't get a shot.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Used to be an AB's loss was the world falling apart. Now its just meh, what do you expect, these doofuses have lost 6 of the last 8 and they found another way to lose another one. No biggie. To be expected. We can all see it unfolding. They keep picking the same guys who lost all those games. They are, literally, losers. And Fozzie is virtually NAILED ON to start Frizzle, Cane and Ardie next week too. Someone in that coaching group is going to have to pop his head above the pulpit and chirp "you know, why are we picking these same dumbarses every week who keep losing us the match? We dont owe them anything and they're sure as fuck not repaying the faith. We've got plenty of other options to have a look at. RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck). An Umaga Jensen brother. It's not like we HAVE to pick David fucking Havili".

 

[fatprop]

Nothing like sitting in a pub cheering for the Argies as they put the ABs to the sword surrounded by Kiwis

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Cane should do the right thing & step aside - use the mental health card if he needs to, no-one's gunna bag him for it - with Ardie taking the 7 shirt & captain's armband. I know he wants to play 8 but right now we need him at 7 & a proper 8 at 8. Whether Sotutu is that 8 I don't know but we're never going to know if he doesn't get a shot.

Sounds admirable and you'd like to think he'd be lauded for it these days...... but its not really in the mindset of athletes at that level is it. They've crushed everyone to get where they are, the tip of the spear, and any setbacks are just anomalies in the continued crushing.

Plus what have these guys got to fall back on? In their lives. 800k p/a or so is the highest paying job they will ever have, at the ripe old age of 30. Sam Cane will be dragged kicking and screaming out of the All Blacks cos he knows, travelling the world playing for the All Blacks, national heroes etc, after this, what has he got? The grim spectre of another 60 years or so of playing out the string alongside the rest of us humdrum mortals. Except, as it stands, he'll be lumped in with Taine Randell for all eternity. Not a flash look for an ex-All Black.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Up to 992 as I type this.

Comments closed after 7 hours.

1100+ comments.

And that was overnight. God knows what would've happened if they'd let it run during the goddamn daytime.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Sounds admirable and you'd like to think he'd be lauded for it these days...... but its not really in the mindset of athletes at that level is it. They've crushed everyone to get where they are, the tip of the spear, and any setbacks are just anomalies in the continued crushing.

I tend to agree. Which is why *someone* needs to point out that he can leave on his own terms & that it doesn't have to be forever (Randell made it back, don't forget) OR...

 

[Dismal Pillock]

LOL Stuff putting the boot in BIGTIME now

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[Derpus]

All good points. And the success can mask the fact that some guys just aren't going to make it. Tough to change a winning combo - ask Australian cricket.

Savea to 7 and Captain is probably the first move I'd make, as well as picking a backrow that balances around him at 6 & 8 in their core roles. There will be some short term pain but that is the nature of change.

Hoskins fucken Sotutu hasn't had a single minute of test rugby despite being the standout flanker in NZ.

It'd be death by firing squad for me. Foster is a moron.

Hope he sticks around forever.

 

[Derpus]

Sounds admirable and you'd like to think he'd be lauded for it these days...... but its not really in the mindset of athletes at that level is it. They've crushed everyone to get where they are, the tip of the spear, and any setbacks are just anomalies in the continued crushing.

Plus what have these guys got to fall back on? In their lives. 800k p/a or so is the highest paying job they will ever have, at the ripe old age of 30. Sam Cane will be dragged kicking and screaming out of the All Blacks cos he knows, travelling the world playing for the All Blacks, national heroes etc, after this, what has he got? The grim spectre of another 60 years or so of playing out the string alongside the rest of us humdrum mortals. Except, as it stands, he'll be lumped in with Taine Randell for all eternity. Not a flash look for an ex-All Black.

Getting a bit dark even fer you mate.