Reds 2017

[No4918]

We should just change the subject No4918.

Great idea.

That really does look like a solid team. If Paia'aua doesn't work at 12 I'd be intrigued to see how a Kerevi/Magnay pair will work. Both have good hands run extremely hard. For those desperate to have a second playmaker it would give Hunt more of a look coming into the line to fill that role. I'm not at all convinced that a second play maker is the only way to go, especially when better quality players are left out as a result.

 

[RedsHappy]

Jesus gel and RH you two seem to have already dismissed Nick Stiles as a shit coach. Give the guy a chance FFS. If he does not get 6-7 wins next year (5 if we have an injury crisis) then you can say we told you so and we will probably all call for his head.

EDIT: What I also expect from the reds in 2017 is 100% effort for 80 mins, each and every game, playing competent, never giving up, pushing better teams, and causing a few major upsets.

I have never said Stiles is a 'shit coach', never.

What I have said, and I stand by it, is that on objective grounds and in terms of what has of sheer necessity to be rapidly achieved at the Reds to avert another 2009 scenario at Ballymore:

- there is only very limited evidence to date to support the notion that Stiles is the right HC candidate for what the Reds/QRU now require (and that is a fast pathway to a lot of entertaining, predominantly winning S18 rugby broadly a la 2010-12 whilst also noting that the standard of almost all other Super teams has increased markedly since the aforementioned period). The Reds forwards under Stiles were 8/10 for set piece but only 4-5/10 in other skills departments, what was delivered was an unbalanced set of forwards coaching credentials

- I find it highly surprising that a so-called 'rigorous global search' yielded up Stiles as easily the best Reds HC candidate to achieve the above

- unlike others, I do not consider the NRC and coaching Bris City to success necessarily a clear or reliable indicator of S18 HC talent. It's a confected and as yet unproven (in terms of its originally stated goals) solely domestic competition and more importantly BC is effectively a Reds A team if one looks at its typical composition, and that composition is one of the core reasons for its comparative success vs other NRC teams that are less well resourced in elite player stocks

I am happy to wish Stiles well and I hope for the best from him, but this is rooted in fan-based emotion and not hard evidence or, as yet, objective conviction.

 

[TSR]

Magnay has impressed me from what I've seen. Looks a real good prospect and, importantly looks like he really works hard off the ball. It'll be interesting how he figures in team selection next year.

 

[The torpedo]

Really RH? You really want to continue this shitfight?
You were responding and agreeing to this comment by gel:

^^^^ as I said...

The QRU haven't learned anything.

Who was responding to this comment by Reg:

in the end though I think part of the HC interview process was around the support team - Blackadder was coming with Matson etc. Stiles obviously proposed his support crew and given his limited top level experience he's clearly gone with people he's worked with.

I guess in the end he (and then the QRU) have chosen options who they are confident are 'on the same page' as him and can deliver the outcomes he knows he will be judged on.

who was responding to this comment by gel:

Because the QRU clearly are not casting a wider net, and therefore they are excluding better qualified staff.

What gel seemed to imply is that because of the net cast by the QRU was not very wide, and excluded better staff (presumably) is that Stiles is not good enough. You agreed with his comment, which implies that you also think Stiles is a dud. What I was saying is that wait until the results from Super Rugby come before judging.

Now can we all just shut up about this and move on to something else?

 

[gel]

Really RH? You really want to continue this shitfight?
You were responding and agreeing to this comment by gel:



Who was responding to this comment by Reg:



who was responding to this comment by gel:



What gel seemed to imply is that because of the net cast by the QRU was not very wide, and excluded better staff (presumably) is that Stiles is not good enough. You agreed with his comment, which implies that you also think Stiles is a dud. What I was saying is that wait until the results from Super Rugby come before judging.

Now can we all just shut up about this and move on to something else?

No.

I was referring to the assistants being local. Keep going back and you would see this.

 

[The torpedo]

No.

I was referring to the assistants being local.

Oh.
Now, as I have said before, let's all move on

 

[dru]

We should just change the subject No4918.

How would this team look?

1. Slipper (c)
2. Moore
3. Talakai
4. Douglas
5. Simmons
6. Tui
7. Smith
8. Houston
9. Frisby
10. Cooper
11. Nabuli
12. Paia'aua
13. Kerevi
14. Laolifi
15. Hunt
16. Ready
17. Fa'agase
18. Thor
19. Neville
20. Korczyk/Gunn/Timu
21. James Tuttle
22. Magnay/Taefu
23. Kuridrani/Jack Tuttle/Banks/Gibbon

I'd start by swapping Ready to 2 and Moore to 16. He'll have to prove his stripes.
Also keep a close eye on Smith. If he is 80% of what we saw the last time he wore Gold, then yes. Otherwise we have some youngsters who need game time.

Love Paia'aua at 12. Has to be given a go. Sad to see Kurindrani in the reserves, but cant fault your choices.

Will Hunt ever look to a move to the centers?

 

[dillyboy]

^ Problem I have with signing guys like Moore & Smith on their reputations is that you don't hire them and not have them in the run on side....

From the looks of recent form Smith will be a more than worthy replacement for Gill but I don't rate Moore (he's still going to be our #2 next year though).

Tough break for Ready as unless he comes down with a terrible case of second season syndrome he deserves a starting spot

 

[Slim 293]

To be fair, Moore's Super Rugby form this year was far better than Ready's...............

 

[RugbyReg]

To be fair that's a completely objective statement. Moore's form started very well but faded. Ready's started very well and stayed at that level.

In saying that Moore is the wallaby captain and should start but i expect them to get pretty equal game time next year yet Moore's impact on the squad to be significant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TOCC]

Moores impact on the squad will be through that of experience and leadership, not through his form been far better then the incumbent hooker.

 

[dru]

Far better? I dont think so. sufficiently better to justify relegating Ready? I dont think so.

Clearly Moore brings more to the team than general play. And with some new talent coming into THP he can only help in a way Ready cant. Ands the Reds need the leadership of older heads.

Just hope that he gets plenty of game time.

 

[TOCC]

That wasn't my point at all.

Will i still go to the matches? yes. Will I still support them on game night? yes. But I am concerned by what is happening at ballymore again.

I hate this dismissive attitude towards history.

That is certainly how your point is coming across though, you are whinging about the chance that Queensland premier grade coaches may be promoted to the assistant coach role. There are some talented coaches in Premier Grade Rugby with bright futures ahead of them, you don't even know which coaches are been referred to yet but you have already dismissed their selection as nepotism or repeating a past mistake.

It's a shame that some of these hard working and talented coaches in the QPR have been tainted with the same brush. Do you really believe there are no coaches in QLD worthy of being an Super Rugby assistant coach?

 

[gel]

Bright futures? Yes.

Ready for super rugby now? Maybe, maybe not.

There are some very talented coaching staff that were named in the selection process that were passed over in favour of locals. given the history of the place, the balance of probabilities indicates the same thought processes abound. That's my point.

I may be wrong, but the look is not good.

I am frustrated by the dismissal of the crusaders coaching staff though. their record is fantastic and people on here seem to think that it's just coz they had a good team. It's as incredulous as someone being undecided about Richard Graham's head coaching ability after the first season at the reds.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yes the Crusaders' coaching staff's record is fantastic.

You know what's even more fantastic though? The record of their predecessors and the record of their ITM Cup Team. They won it something like 6 of the 8 seasons Blackadder was in charge.

Outside of this, none of Blackadder's other coaching appointments have been successful.

Blackadder has also been on record in the past stating the difficulty he has managing a team full of All Blacks at Super Rugby level.

Combine that with the rumor Reg noted about a Crusaders colleague now at the Reds who apparently was less than complimentary and it gives you a reason to start asking questions.

Outside Blackadder, the candidates did not have a great deal of success as Head Coaches at any level if you actually looked up their careers. Some had even less than Stiles in fact.

The only candidates with significant experience were Fisher (who dropped out early), Lancaster and one other.

Fisher actually does not have a great HC record. Lancaster did ok with England but also had bad periods and the other has a poor record in Japan actually.

 

[gel]

and that's what I'm talking about...

Make any excuse for dissing a coaching team that has not only vast experience at super rugby level, but also significant success in favour of: minimal super rugby experience and zero super rugby success.

Who are the Reds coaching staff going to be learning from? Who's the cool head in their line up that has been there and done that and knows what call to make at the heat of the moment. Is it stiles? Great skills coach, but what success has he had at super rugby coaching? Who has he learned from?

The Reds need experienced, successful coaches now in order to develop their team moving forwards - and that is where they should be putting their cash. Choosing a group of either inexperienced, or unsuccessful coaches and expecting different results is logic that is very risky imo.

 

[gel]

And if you dismiss Blackadder successful coaching on the basis of his district, then you can also dismiss stiles successful NRC coaching on the basis of the Brisbane city team blatant reds stacking.

 

[Scrubber2050]

To be fair, Moore's Super Rugby form this year was far better than Ready's.....

Bullshit !!!!!!!!!

 

[Strewthcobber]

I was sort of under the impression that Blackadder only really applied as a backup plan in case he didn't get the Director of rugby job at Bath.

The almost simultaneous announcement of the two roles suggest both sides were waiting for at least one candidate to make a decision on an offer,

 

[Train Without a Station]

Except then you'd ignore the strength of the Vikings, Rising and Spirit and despite their strength, none of them have lost a single game across 2 seasons.

There weren't 3 other provinces who inherited a system with the same strength as Blackadder.

It's not dismissing Blackadder based on that.

It's looking at the failure of Deans from the same system and actually asking, is he a good coach, or does he benefit from a good system?

Combining the fact he inherited the most successful franchise in Super Rugby history and was underpinned with a dominantly successful ITM Cup team with other murmurings that have come out and the fact that he was not part of a successful team as an assistant, nor was he at ITM Cup level, you have to wonder if he is capable of creating a good team. He has maintained one, so yes he hasn't done a Richard Graham, but we need somebody who can build the team back up.

I have my concerns regarding Stiles based on his poor results when coach of Uni, but unfortunately it's hard to find premier grade details from that side so I can't really form an educated view.

And that's before we even consider that Blackadder may have decline the offer actually as we can be sure that Bath would be paying twice as much.